To be fed up with my DD having to prop up the less able children

[endlesschatonthecarpet]

OK, I know I probably am being unreasonable and await a flaming! My daughter (in year 1) is very quick, very clever but not blessed with much patience! Because she is one of the top in the class she always seems to be paired with a talk partner who is finding the work more of a struggle. I completely understand that this can be useful sometimes, but it seems to happen every day and some days my DD comes hope very fed up and grumpy because she's had to "waste time". She gets what the task is once the teacher has done the initial set up and is keen to get going. This endless sitting on the carpet with whiteboards talking to another child who is not working at the same level is doing her head in! Now, I fully accept that the teacher has to consider the needs of all the children - not just my precious DD, but couldn't she at least sometimes just send the more able children off to get started while she does a bit more work with the others or pair up the bright children so they can really develop their ideas?

Obviously I've said to my DD that she needs to get on with whatever the teacher asks her to do and haven't given her any indication that I share her feelings about this practice but I do feel really frustrated on my daughter's behalf.
Anyone else feel the same or am I alone in my unreasonableness?

DowagersHump Tue 26-Jun-12 17:32:19
Of course that's wrong LeQ. But that isn't what the OP is talking about.

The problem is although the OP might not have said that, its an issue that starts young and probably isn't going to get better because of the mentality that because she's doing well, she isn't as worthy of teachers time. The view is expressed throughout the thread, that other children are more important. Thats wrong. All kids are equally important. Some kids need more attention from the teacher - but that can be from all parts of the spectrum, for various different reasons.

Achieving or being bright is actively frowned upon in the UK. There is a really negative attitude towards it, when there really shouldn't be. I wouldn't want the UK to end up with children pushed as much as they are in places like China and Japan, but if kids are actively frustrated and hiding themselves away then something is very wrong indeed. It is as bad as kids being completely illiterate.

Aiming for mediocrity ultimately has no benefit for any child in the system, if we want to compete in business and science on an international level.

I know the exact attitude you're talking about Hmm. It's here in Aus too. Sadly find it facilitates racism because then the whole 'chinks taking our uni placement!!' bullshit starts. We do have a lot of foreign kids in school but most people seem to forget that these are Australian kids beating them.

It's just a bad idea all around.

This thread is very interesting. Not much of it relates to my original post, but that's fine, one idea leads to another and so on.

I have found some of the pro talk partner comments very interesting and had certainly not considered how telling someone what you have understood cements it in your mind and leads to better understanding. That is quite a comforting thought.

What does make me cross however is the idea that referring to your child as clever is makes you a competitive or show off parent. My child is extremely bright. That is a fact. It doesn't make her better or worse than any other the other children in her class, but it is a fact about her that I think needs to be considered. What makes me concerned is when she comes home frustrated because she hasn't been able to go as far with her work as she'd like to. I don't expect her to be hot-housed or treated as some kind of special case, I am more than happy for her to work closely with children or all abilities, but I also want her to feel stimulated and challenged. not too much to ask surely!

I still don't get this. OP you say you are not happy with people expressing that maybe your DD needs to learn some social skills but state that she is upset because she can't 'get on with her work'. Sorry but tuff, talk time is a universal thing in most Infant schools, so is carpet time. Just because she wants to go off and start her work doesn't mean she gets too.

It actually sounds like she is putting too much pressure on herself - you stated a few pages back she isn't happy with the work she's completeing or something to that effect. She's 6yo - she shouldn't be feeling she can't complete the work if she is one of the higher acheivers because work is differentiated to the child's ability to be completed in the timescale allowed.

Perhaps maybe she is struggling? Maybe she is in a group that's too hard for her f she's struggling to keep up? It may be worth having a chat to her teacher.

I still maintain that your DD will have o complete the talking partners part of school and she'll have to learn that she'll have to talk to those who are ina lower group. I won't repeat the benefits of this as others have explained it very well over and over.

I found it the case when my kids were in primary school the school catered brilliantly for Special Needs where the child had difficulties learning but was provided no extra help for children at the other end of the spectrum - indeed the school barely recognised the existence of such children

x posts!!!

Glad to see you've accepted the benefits of talking partners.

I still think you need to chat to the teacher. It worries me that 2-3 minutes of talking partners a day is affecting how your DD feels about the whole school day and her work.

I actually don't think this is about the talking partners. I still think it sounds more like an issue with the actual work your DD is being given.

Nope, not too much to ask OP. At the risk of being unpopular, have you thought about moving her? To an academically selective school? If she's as bright as you say (and I'm not questioning that) then shed thrive in an academic school.

"What makes me concerned is when she comes home frustrated because she hasn't been able to go as far with her work as she'd like to. I don't expect her to be hot-housed or treated as some kind of special case, I am more than happy for her to work closely with children or all abilities, but I also want her to feel stimulated and challenged. not too much to ask surely!"

I think you just need to say that to your DD teacher and maybe her next year 2 teacher next year early on. That way they know your DD is frustrated and feeling unchallenged and that you are monitoring the situation. Might mean they can make some adjustments for your DD.

Oh, and it is possible to find great prep schools who offer bursarys and scholarships if need be...

Maybe I'm not expressing myself well youarekidding. What my daughter finds frustrating is that she has to spend a long time having the task explained, then discussing it with other children before she can get on and do it. If she was paired with another bright child during the talk time she might enjoy this but more often than not she seems to be with a child who is not 'gettng' it. She therefore sees this time as wasted time and I must say a big part of me agrees with her. It is not that she is not completing the work, but rather that she is not enjoying it as much as she could. Of course I say to her that she needs to do whatever the teacher says and she understands that, but it doesn't mean it is the right thing for her to be doing.

ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL i presumed year 1 was age 12/13, but it's, ROFL, age 5.

Dear God, get a grip you lot. It's only first year of primary.

Haven't read all posts but get the gist. May I take this opportunity to thank all the wonderful children who supported my DD who has Down syndrome throughout her school life and all the parents of these children who encouraged them to help. DD is now a lovely young lady who will help everybody thanks to all who have helped her

Oh I'm sorry Greatauntie - are 5 year olds not allowed to be interested in school work? I'll tell her she has to wait until she's 12 to bother about any of that nonense. Thanks or clearing that up! She can go back to playing with crayons now.....

Maybe I'm not expressing myself well youarekidding. What my daughter finds frustrating is that she has to spend a long time having the task explained, then discussing it with other children before she can get on and do it. But every child has to participate in carpet time - it's called input, it forms part of the planning structure. It's fantastic your DD understands it straight away. But she would never learn anything without the input because I'm sure she wasn't born knowing how to add, take away, the grammer rules of literacy etc!

IME ( and it's many years) talking partners are set for a period of time. Teachers do not spend minutes during every lesson setting talking partners for that lesson.

In my DS school it's the same partner for a week drawn out of a hat on the Monday. It may be someone who is 'brighter' than him and maybe someone not.

What you need to differentiate between is bright and academically able. Some children are both, some bright children are not academically able like my DS!

I do think the only way you'll avoid this is selective independent school. That is the only way your DD is ever going to avoid talking to less 'bright' children on a carpet for the next 5 years.

In DD1's class in year 2, they work often with the group who sit together on their table, who are mixed abilities, they don't seem to work in twos very often.

But also they are grouped by ability for some tasks so work in a different group and the higher ability ones get work that may be more advanced than what the.others are doing.

Seems like a good balance. One to chat to the teacher about on parents evening.

Applauds 2old

Have I said there is no value in carpet time? No! I have said I'm pissed off that my daughter is continually paired with children who are considerably less bright than she is. Big difference. I don't think I should just have to accept that and neither should my daughter. I will talk to the school about this and value the comments I have recive on here which have helped my clarify my thoughts.

That is "received", not "recive" !

I'll admit OP that I took agin you when you used the term "prop up". It seemed to reveal an "attitude" to other children, based on assumptions about their ability.

You DD sounds articulate and motivated. It may indeed be the at the time on the carpet is too long. OTOH, any time on the carpet may feel like time wasted to her because she (like lots of us) likes to see tangible outcomes - words/numbers on a page.

I agree with youarekidding that maybe she does put more pressure on herself than is warranted.

I think I would definitely talk to her teacher if I were you to find out how much carpet time she is having, whether there is scope for some groups to get on with their work while others remain on the carpet (that does happens at our school), and whether her talk partners are varied.

I find it hard to comment on what the OP says because I'm not really clear about how long she's expected to sit on the carpet and chat to this other girl, and whether she is being given more demanding work in other contexts.

I do agree with LeQueen, however. If a child is able to understand quickly what the teacher is saying, then they should be given something more demanding to challenge them. We all get bored if we are given work that doesn't stretch us, and when you're learning something, you should be given tasks that are a little bit harder than you can manage easily. So in other words, not too easy that it's a doddle, not so hard that you end up struggling.

You don't even have to think of it in terms of "bright children" or "less able children" (as this seems to get people's backs up), you just gear it to their ability to do the task. Have they understood how to do this maths problem? Yes - well, give them something a bit more challenging then. Can they read the level 1 books with ease? Yes - then give them a level 2 book. (My DD's reception teacher made her read every level 2 book in the effing Oxford Reading Tree when she could already read at level 4.)

I'm not a great fan of the idea that when you pair able children with less able ones (or however you want to phrase it), they both benefit. I actually think they both end up being worse off. In year 7, my DD was forced to sit next to a boy who was not only very poor academically, he was very badly behaved. I can assure advocates of this approach that she learned nothing from it at all except to hate school. And I don't think he learned anything from it either, except to copy her work.

Sorry, endlesschat, but there are 13 pages here about this, I read some of them but realised that at 5 who she sits with in school is of v little significance in the greater scheme of things but you are absolutely right to speak to teacher if you are concerned.

She will have 13 years of school, she will have good teachers and bad teachers, nice friends and nasty friends, out of school her relatives may die or be seriously ill, marriages break up, family might have to move to a new area, Lots of big things in her life, so this is not a major crisis but a little blip.

But certainly speak to teacher and get some background as to what is going on. If she is clever she will most likely do very well regardless but it is worth getting to know her teacher so that you are, hopefully, reassured.

Then I agree with posters ^^. If your DD is 'considerably' more able than all her peers she would be better suited to a selective independent school - maybe with a scholership if she's so very able? If finances are an issue then a child who is that academic may also get a bursery to cover the excess - selective schools won't let a child who is G&T slip away!

There is just no way with all the will in the world a state school can/will send one child off after input, during input etc to get on with their work. There is a curriculum followed, and although differentiated it is followed.

I again suggest you speak to you DD's teacher. A child who is considerably academically more able than their peers at the end of year 1 will have reached a level 3 - expected at the end of year 3. Most children your DD's age will be a level 1 (1B ish) some will be working towards level 1 and some just working at a level 2 (2C).

Ask the teacher what level she is working at. Please though be willing to accept your DD may just be one of the more able - not considerably more so and that those she is paired with may be working at the same level. Obviously the teacher will not say little X is a 1A so is your DD but be open minded that you may be told her partners are working at a similar level (and read between the lines!). I usually find discussions about a child's progress and acheivements work best when both the teacher and parent have an open mind.

I say that as a parent and someone working in education

My DS actually works at 4 sublevels ahead in maths than he does in literacy. It's very hard to catagorise children.

What I would also say, OP, is that some children come home from school and moan endlessly about the 5 minutes they were not happy. Young children, especially, do this. Others are having real problems that are of real long-term concern. It's so hard, as parents, to know the difference, and I've got it wrong bothe ways in the past 9worrying needlessly about small things, not taking seriously something which was bound to have a catastropic result).

Another reason to talk to the teacher

Greataunt, maybe you have older children and so have greater perspective. She's my oldest though and so I am relatively new to this and am possibly making too big a deal of it. She's my daughter though and so I think it is in my job description to fuss a bit! By the way she's six .