WWYD 5yr old 'racist' comment

[lola88]

When i picked my niece up from school on thursday the teacher told my there had been an incident with a little boy calling her a 'black face' she is mixed race. I was totally shocked she has never had any sort of racist comments before so was new for me to deal with tho i'm sure it won't be the last. The teacher spoke to the boys mum and DN seems fine about it to her it's just like being called any other name.

The thing thats annoying me is the boys mum i have spoke to her a couple of times and see her around a lot, but she's not said a word about it. If i was in her shoes i would want to say something but she has totally ignored me giving me cold looks if i catch her eye. I don't get it i tried to give her a 'kids will be kids' smile when it happened she just stalked off past me.

I don't know how to say this without sounding dramatic but i'm worried she's not said anything because maybe she herself has a problem with racism friends i've spoke to have suggested it saying he must have picked it up at home but i don't know.

WWYD if your child said that and you sort of knew the other childs parent/aunt? I'm so worried that if she's not dealing with it it could turn nasty for DN

nosey that post was not meant to be dismissive of that terrible experience and I am sorry if it comes across that way.
That man punched a woman in a school playground. It is unlikely that the comment you made had anything much to do with it.
People like that dont need a reason.

Kewcumber, you are being so dismissive of other people. How can you assume anyone who comments on my son is not being offensive whilst reserving the right yourself to take as much offence as possible regarding you own children?

This discussion has made me feel so sad. I have never spoken to my mum about our so-called racist episode. I feel so ashamed that my comment led to that episode.

But it didnt Nosey.
It really didnt.
That man was a psychopath.
I wasnt there, I dont know you but I would bet a lot of money that your comment had nothing to do with him punching your mum.

I would also bet that he had form for violence against women.
Dont forget that facts get blurred over the years and we remember things very differently.
As children we blame ourselves for things that have nothing to do with us.

I don't think that a small child would naturally describe another child's face as 'black' because it wouldn't be factually true except in fairly limited circumstances. Very few people can really be described as black, just as very few people are really 'white'. Given that the OP's niece is mixed race it's even less likely that her face is truly black, so calling her 'a black face' was most likely a learned insult. that said it doesn't necessarily mean that the child was being racist (they might just have been feeling mean) or that they picked up the racist term from home.

The use of black and white to describe people is more political than descriptive. I certainly remember in the 80s watching someone on TV saying that she identified as black even though she was British Asian, so it hasn't always been used as a term to refer to/identify with those of African heritage.

"How can you assume anyone who comments on my son is not being offensive whilst reserving the right yourself to take as much offence as possible regarding you own children?" Well I'm sorry if I made an inaccurate assumption - I would assume if people were trying to be offensive to your son by calling him blonde that you would be offended. Why wouldn't you be? Do you think its OK to single people out because of how they look then even if its your own son? Are you trying to teach him thats its ok to call people names based on how they look and that you must put up with it if they do. Each to their own I guess, but I think thats just weird.

Are we all expected to put up with it because you do?

In fact I'm not being dismissive (I don't think) of others. My point was raised because whenever I (or others) make any points about racists comments being aimed at our children someone always trots out the old slightly disingenuous "oh but its OK to call someone "white" or "blonde" (or whatever) so I don't see why you get offended when someone calls a child "black girl" or "chinky" its just descriptive. Well I find that fucking dismissive and so I responded perhaps pointlessly because if you can't understand my earlier (and repeated) point about context and intention then it really doesn't bear repeating again.

It's a sore point of mine at the moment as my 6 year old has been bullied twice in playgrounds in the past two weeks and been called names relating to his race so excuse me if I "take as much offence as possible"

I would tell my child that it's not nice to call anyone names full stop. I would not focus it on racism because a 5 year old cannot be racist. I said something similar when i was in primary school - A boy i was friends with and i had a falling out - He called me baldy head (I had alopecia) i called him black head (He had black hair). He was also black. I remember being very confused by terms such as 'racial insult'. In my mind all i had done was call him a name in equal measure to what he called me. I could not help having alopecia, he could not help having black hair. Dragging racism into this sort of thing just encourages racial tension - I was left upset and hurt that, in my mind, he could bully me, and i could not retaliate because he was a different colour to me.

"I would tell my child that it's not nice to call anyone names full stop"

yes that was actually my first post upthread - its only when some people started trying to rationalise that its really OK and we shouldn't so touchy (I'm paraphrasing!) that I lost the plot somewhat...

I am giving up now.

Maybe some people have made some progress here though, hey MrsDV - an important discussion to have ?

In your shoes I'd expect that the comment was said in all innocence. It's possible the mother is embarrassed or doesn't know how to bring up the subject. Don't think bad of the mother unless you have firm evidence, which you don't

you could always (at a push) ask the teacher how the mother took things during the discussion.

Thinking about it my ds was upset last year because he felt he was being bullied for being English (we live in Canada). It was interesting I guess because we've always been in the majority so never really experienced 'othering'. So he was upset and the other kid probably enjoyed that, and it was racial abuse I guess but really it's not in the same league because fundamentally ds is not and will not be at any disadvantage, indeed going up to High School next year his English accent will almost certainly be a plus. So we just kept an eye on the situation.

However when a different child called him rude names related to his dyslexia which were extremely disablist (sp?) we felt very differently, not just because ds is a bit sensitive about his terrible writing but also because I am very hard on any disability related crap (partly because I have family with learning disabilities). People with disabilities suffer significant disadvantages from other peoples ignorant and hateful attitudes, so for me to ignore it feels like contributing to the problem.

juggling yes it is.
but It always seems to turn into a conversation about how much racism white people are forced to put up with.
Ironically black people are often told not to make a fuss and parents of mixed race kids are told that too.
But on these threads white mothers of white children are not.

How does that work?

nooka I understand why you feel that way about the different comments.
I mean, since when has being white been a disadvantage, really?

I remember being at a seminar and a senior social work lecturer at Warick complaining bitterly that her son had suffered racial abuse by black townies whilst at uni.
Now I am not disputing that being called a white whatever was distressing to her son and it was wrong.
But how could she not see that her son - white, male, middle class and university educated was from the least opressed group on hte planet?
He could step out of the situation that had made him vulnerable to racist remarks.
Most people dont have that luxury.

Racism is shocking isnt it? Why can those who have only experienced it once and have been shaken by not understand that if you face it on a regular basis it doesnt get easier?

Agree wuith kewcumber @20:49pm.

And quite frankly laughing at the concept of a child being called 'blonde boy' as an insult!

As if that would be offensive.

I used to get a fair bit of 'whappen blondie' back in the day.
It was annoying
not offensive.

Ha ha ha! Whappen blondie!

Yes slightly annoying!

but It always seems to turn into a conversation about how much racism white people are forced to put up with

It does doesn't it?

My family and I have had to move home twice due to racial abuse.

Its no wonder I love innercity London so much!

I just think slow progress is still progress though, MrsDV.
So, glad you came back !

I work with young children, so I'm seeing things mainly from that angle.
Not had much personal experience of racism ( except a feeling of positive discrimination when I lived in Japan for a year, and felt like a bit of a minor celebrity ) but have certainly been involved in several unpleasant incidents (kind of as an observer) over the years.

the OP was about a 5 yr old but the thread moved on the discuss racism generally and I assume that what MrsDV is referring to not 5 yr olds.

I suffered from discrimination when growing up in Wales with an English mother and accent so I'm quite aware of the possibilities wrt to white racism". The vast majority of racism is related to skin colour and facial features though.

I can't see where anyone has said there is no white racism?

The point is Baby is that NOONE ever bloody says that.
No one.

Sorry - yes they do, they say 'I hate it when people say white people dont get descriminated against' and 'why do people always say you cant be racist to white people'

What actually happens is that people get fed up of being told to lose the chip off their shoulder and stop making a fuss and by the way did i tell you about the time my aunt got called a white bitch and she never got over it?

And because my white colleagues son wasnt jewish or irish.

Ironic you define yourself as other on those forms.

For many years I didnt have the choice about how to define my children. I could only choose 'other'

No mixed race box for them, just the insulting 'other'.

I used to draw a massive box and write it in myself.
Nowdays you get a big choice.
I hope that is because lots of stroppy mothers made a fuss.

MrsDV - I'm waiting for a box called "Dunno, but I could take a guess"

I think there is a lot of sanctimonious intolerance on this thread coming from various angles. Lots of assuming that other people are not bright enough or too bigotted to get the point.

And as usual a post that mentions racism has gone entirely off the point raised by the OP.

Perhaps the other mum just doesn't want to get into this type of conversation where assumptions are made about her family - or perhaps the OP has not given the mum time to approach her in a tactful way, given the OP hasn't been at school since the incident was reported.