WWYD 5yr old 'racist' comment

[lola88]

When i picked my niece up from school on thursday the teacher told my there had been an incident with a little boy calling her a 'black face' she is mixed race. I was totally shocked she has never had any sort of racist comments before so was new for me to deal with tho i'm sure it won't be the last. The teacher spoke to the boys mum and DN seems fine about it to her it's just like being called any other name.

The thing thats annoying me is the boys mum i have spoke to her a couple of times and see her around a lot, but she's not said a word about it. If i was in her shoes i would want to say something but she has totally ignored me giving me cold looks if i catch her eye. I don't get it i tried to give her a 'kids will be kids' smile when it happened she just stalked off past me.

I don't know how to say this without sounding dramatic but i'm worried she's not said anything because maybe she herself has a problem with racism friends i've spoke to have suggested it saying he must have picked it up at home but i don't know.

WWYD if your child said that and you sort of knew the other childs parent/aunt? I'm so worried that if she's not dealing with it it could turn nasty for DN

Sometimes being an 'invisible' minority means you experience more discrimination as people don't realise your ethnicity ....

If they don't realise your ethnicity, how are they discriminating against you? How can being invisible lead to MORE discrimination than never being able to blend in?

I agree. The only time I experience discrimination for having a bastard Jewish father is if I tell people. I don't look Jewish, I took after my Irish genes so I'm very fair and very blonde. Invisible minorities don't experience the same sort of hatred because they hide it. No one would know looking at my DP that he has an extremely serious mental health disorder.

If it's invisible, it's invisible. The worst I've experienced from people who didn't know I have 'Jew blood' (lovely) are some Jew jokes that were downright disgusting. In which case I put on my 'You're a bigoted wank' hat and toss them to the curb.

Sucks though because I'm not even Jewish. I've been raised a staunch Catholic. Does kind of amuse me Hitler's 'master race' ended up being the Jews! Think about it. No other person will say 'Oh I'm a Catholic' instead of 'I'm an Australian.' Only Jewish people answer with 'I'm a Jew.'

Congrats Hitler.

There's a big benefit to beng an 'invisible minority' as well. People let their guard down ad show their true colours. You have a much better chance of keeping the scum out of your life.

I can't say that about my best friend. I get so angry the way people treat her. n high school I used to tell her it was jealousy. She has the most beautiful chocolately milky skin from being half Filipino and half white. Not to mention the silky black hair AND she's naturally a size 8!

I hate the way people pigeon hole her. People ask her 'what are you?' And she answers 'I'm Australian.' So rude! Wth kind of question is that?

Now she's really struggling to find part time work at uni in the city because 'she's the wrong sort of Asian' to put it in her words. She actually got told basically this by a Korean grocery owner when she tried to put in her resume.

If I am this bloody sick of racism, I can't imagine how she feels. :(

Lurking that's what a Jewish friend of mine says. The experience is different, in that people often unwittingly show their prejudice, but she would not say it was worse, because you can just go under the radar if you want to (unless you are Hasidic etc, so your difference is visually obvious).

Exactly. It's hardly worse than something you can't hide about yourself.

I actually think it's rather sad some people wish they could hide/change their skin.

My mum is extremely old fashioned, and she always tells me she wishes 'she had negress queen skin like those stunning women in Africa.'

She manages to be insulting in her innocent envy. Sadly in this hick town 'negro' isn't considered a vile word.

OP - I hope you are able to update with what action the school took.

Whilst children of this age don't necessarily understand racism, they are more than capable of discriminating based on race. DS who is in Y1 recently told me that a boy (his best friend) was calling an asian boy 'poo head' because he is brown and is covered in poo. Having had a long & open discussion with DS about it, it appears that this has been going on for a while and the abuse is not limited to one child. I initially thought it might be a childs understanding i.e. noticing that the child had different skin for the first time, but it seems that the comments have also gone as far as 'go back to your own country' (something which is not a child's observation!).

I have mentioned it to the teacher and left it with them to deal with, although I do know both sets of parents. I am hoping that the school will deal with it informally without making too much of a deal about it so as not to blow it out of proportion. Will be following up with DS in a chat soon to see...

Whilst children of this age don't necessarily understand racism, they are more than capable of discriminating based on race.

Yes they are, But not the same way as an adult racist would do. I have a problem with anyone labelling a five year old racist, or using the term racial discrimination in relation to a childs comments. They are not capable of the thought process behind true racism. They say what they see - I think dragging racism into things over situations where i child makes a comment about another childs colour is just asking for more trouble. I think it should be treated the same as any other form of name calling.

I initially thought it might be a childs understanding i.e. noticing that the child had different skin for the first time, but it seems that the comments have also gone as far as 'go back to your own country' (something which is not a child's observation!).

That's clearly something that needs adressing though, But again, It's not the child that has thought that up - It's something they've heard somewhere - Probably another child at school. My brother was always the sort to hear something off another child, And end up the one in trouble for it while the child he'd picked it up off went under the teachers radar - For example, other children would swear about the teacher, My brother would be the one who would then do it in front of the teacher and be the only one who got in trouble.

RE: invisible minorities - as my maternal grandmother is Jewish, & so was my paternal great-gran; i admit that i die a little inside every time i hear anti-semitic remarks. Most people don't know or even suspect that i have Jewish ancestry. I want to be open about it but i'm scared to be.

My sister is of mixed race appearance due to the family heritage (many relatives from my Dad's Father's family are / were olive skinned with dark brown eyes & black or dark brown wavy hair - due to mixed Southern European Roma & Russian Jewish heritage. Plus my maternal nan has black hair & brown eyes.)

We knew that my maternal nan's family were German Jews.

But my Dad lost contact with many of his family years ago. We only recently met them & learnt about our ancestry a few months ago - even Dad hadn't known what his ancestry was or why our surname is 'foreign sounding' (yes, we constantly get pointed questions about the surname).

So my sister's problem is that she couldn't feel proud of our ancestry as she didn't know what it was - she just felt bad about looking 'different' from local kids.
Even now my sister still gets asked regularly ''is your father black''? When she says no, people say ''are you sure about that?'' !!
I can't understand why they want to know that - our father isn't black but if he was - why would that be a problem anyway? FFS.

Racism & Anti-Semitism is unacceptable in the 21st century - whoever it is from.
I don't agree with branding young children as 'racist' when their words or views are usually strongly influenced in the home... but they need to be told in school that these views are NOT good; & that certain words / phrases are offensive & illegal - with an age-appropriate explaination as to why this is.
Hopefully the youngest generation will then grow up without so much prejudice?

Why do you feel the need to classify your race back so many generations? My aunt is a genealogist so if I wanted to I could read a big boring book on my family. But I'm Australian, why create so much 'extra' effort?

If I'm misinterpreting please bite my head off! :) You're not actually implying because your grandmother is Jewish you are an invisible minority are you? I would find that offensive and I don't follow my father's faith.

Lurking - but I think your Mum is doing quite well compared to some of her generation if she'd like to have negress queen skin like those stunning African women (but then I don't know what age/ generation she is)

Not upset, BB, just wasn't sure I was getting what you meant.

Lurking - no, i'm not classifying myself in an invisible minority. I am not Jewish. I'm not Christian either - no-one in my family has been Christened. My family - all of them - & i feel that we are white English.
I don't mean any offence.

I only stated my family's (very recent) ancestry to explain why my sister is assumed by many local white, Christian, English yet ignorant idiots to be mixed race due to her looks - which are from the Roma & Jewish sides of my Dad's family.
She has been called names including N, C, W - she had to put up with that shit for years.

Even now she still gets questioned on her 'racial identity'.
Just because her skin is considered to be a bit too dark, & her features not obviously 'English' enough.
To put this into context: another girl was told (by a local man in his 20s) to go & scrub her skin clean - she was half Italian.
One of my colleagues is only part Jewish & has been told recently that she is a 'Jew Bitch'. Some of the most anti-semitic comments i have heard concern people who are only half or quarter Jewish - i'm sorry to say it but that's the harsh truth.
That's how racist people are here. I could give dozens more examples of racism & anti-semitism that i hear every week.

Unfortunately, here, for some reason people really hate it when people are, or appear to be, mixed race - whether white mixed with Black, Asian, Roma or Jewish.

Knowing WHY she gets that abuse, by meeting my Dad's family, has helped my sister a lot. It helps to know your background when you are treated like an 'outsider' because you know that you fit in somewhere.

My maternal Nan is Jewish, as i said, but has told no-one in her sheltered flats - her married name is clearly not Jewish.
But a man in her sheltered flats is Jewish & everyone knows it, so he is ostracised by the other residents. My Nan is the only person who treats him like a fellow human being. He has realised that she's Jewish; but the others haven't yet - hopefully they won't guess.

My cousin's 2 toddlers are going to be sent to the same schools, in the same area. They have a Black African father. Currently they are confident children. But their father already gets ignored by all the neighbours - maybe worse; he's too proud to say. So I'm concerned for them.

Thank you for such a lovely thoughtful response! I'm so glad you saw my question wasn't nasty.

I'm really happy for your sister..I just wish it didn't need to come to this for her to find acceptance. :(

It's ok - just can't believe how racist people can still be. I would be embarrassed to be so rude as them.
I usually do challenge offensive comments now when i hear them - just by explaining why i feel that what they have said is wrong.
I will so say that the majority of people i meet have good qualities too & are willing to listen, even if they don't agree to change their views.

My Mum was with my sister once a few years ago when some young men shouted racist comments - Mum wanted to have a go at them but my sister wouldn't let her. Apparently she just said ''well, i'm used to it now''... Mum only told me that recently & it made me feel so sad.
She still gets the pointed questions about her looks, including from men she knows; which is the last thing she wants as a single young woman.

On a lighter note - when she goes to Spain or a Greek Island local people talk to her in Spanish or Greek - they think she's a European tourist & never realise she's English.
She booked a boat trip in Spain & 2 boats turned up - 1 for the British tourists, & 1 for the Spanish & Italian tourists. The crews directed her to the wrong boat, assuming she was Spanish or Italian & she just thought that more British tourists would join her so the boat launched & she spent an afternoon not understanding a word but being very English & too polite to tell them of their mistake... :)

I challenge most offensive comments....I put up with DP's childish grabbing at my breasts while he's 'looking for my sack of Jew gold.' I admit, I laugh. But it's loving and he's mocking how stupid most of them are, I can't imagine experiencing genuine full blown racism like your poor sister. Like you said, might defend the hell out of the people I'd love but I could never say something racist to someone. It aint in me.

LOL love the story about her being 'too English' too say anything!

Any Aussie would have told them to fuck off..We're you're lovable little sister

I can remember being called "black and dirty" by a classmate around age 5 (I'm half Indian). But at least the mum had the decency to get her to apologise, and then invited me round for a playdate.
I don't think you can do much but be distantly polite to this mum. It sounds like she just isn't handling this very well. Some people just don't have much social nous.
Are the other kids mostly Caucasian? I can remember feeling very different from everyone else at that first school (Aberdeen wasn't exactly a cultural melting pot in the 1980s) but things improved dramatically when we moved to London, where my best friend was from a near-identical ethnic background to me. The whole context was different: 1/4 of the kids were from an Asian background, and to call someone "racist" was a serious insult. I'm not suggesting your niece needs to change schools, but it might be a consideration next time the family moves house.
If she does look different to everyone else in school, tell her she looks pretty so she can be proud of that difference.

I actually don't see how the mum isn't handling it well..She may not even know it was aimed at OP's niece if there is more than one mixed race kid in the room.

I think if she went out of her way to make it a big deal, it becomes a big deal when it really was probably just an 'innocently nasty' comment.

I honestly think expecting the mum to be on her knees gushing is unrealistic. If this was my child I'd be humiliated and give them 'the talk,' but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to apologise to a strange child's family?

The OP said that she did know the other mum though 'its a tiny school and everyone knows everyone' so I think that it wasn't an unrealistic expectation. Although it doesn't sound as if the school handled it very sensitively as she also said the mum was talked to in front of other parents.

Hopefully it was a one of incident.

I havn't read through all the comments so these questipns could of already been asked and answered?

1. What has the neices mum said about it?
2. If she knows, is she offended?
3. Why would the other childs mum even bother speaking to you about it?

IMO I don't think it was intended as racism, small children just describe people exactly how tey see them ie that man is fat, that woman has a big nose ect. Sems rude to an adult but to a small child their just saying what they see.

*questions
*they
*seems

It may have been an innocent comment as kids this age are very literal. However, if my kid said something like that I would tell her to it's rude to comment on peoples differences and make her apologise.

Comments like these may not be racist but they do need a response. Just an appropriate one. It's important to teach our kids what might be hurtful to others. I can't believe people get all 'pc gorn mad ' over things like this.

When she was four my DD asked me why some people are brown. I told her god painted us different colours but we are all the same underneath. She wasn't being racist, but she did need to be taught about race and equality.

I don't think it was racist... Black face for a 5 year old to say is just a observation !

I would say, get over it !

How many times would you expect the person its said to to 'get over it' though?

Yes it may well be said in innocence but if its something that happens a lot it can be wearing, in fact it is wearing which is why it should be nipped in the bud, as frothyOM did with her DD, a quick explanation as to how our comments can be hurtful to others is a good idea.

Its wrong to blame the 'victim' for being hurt by such comments-it is in no way their fault for being affected by such things.