To be absolutely LIVID with my kids?? Do I expect too much? honesty please

[Fragmin]

So, just started a new job, 13 hour shifts, 3 days a week.

My kids are 12 and 13. Neither are special needs or have any other excuses.

I have to set off for work at 6.30am which means they have to be trusted to get themselves up (well, I wake them but they are free to lounge in bed until later with an alarm on incase they fall asleep.

Request 1 - get up and leave the house for school before 8.20am.

Now, as I don't get home until 8.30pm they kids are free to go to their grandma's house when they get home from school - however they prefer to come straight home.

Request 2 - keep the house reasonably tidy.

And, as a rare treat I told them to take £20 out of the kitty tonight for a takeaway 1, so that they could eat before I got home and 2, to save me cooking.

Request 3 - just pop into the chinese (they walk past it on the way to their favourite take-away) and grab me a portion of noodles and curry I can warm up when I get home.

So - do I ask too much? really? Because

a) DS2 decides he'd stay home from school all day and paint his skateboard. I didn't know until I got home at 8.15pm (finished early).

b) The house was an absolute tip. Sweet wrappers all over the living room floor, cushions thrown all over, pots everwhere - honestly it looked like a bunch of toddlers had been shown in and told to "go crazy". Very nice to walk into after a 13 hour shift.

c) they couldn't even be arsed to wait 5 minutes in the chinese for my tea. Got themselves theirs of course, spent the money I left them then fucked off home leaving me with nothing for my tea.

Maybe it's because I had a particularly hard day at work but I'm so angry I could cry.

Well this thread certainly explains the learned helplessness I see every day in my job as a secondary school teacher. Some kids really aren't used to doing anything for themselves and are astonished when there are consequences for their lack of organisation because at home someone always picks up after them. I get really frustrated with the parents who swoop in to rescue their kid who has forgotten his PE kit or homework or lunch, yet I have seen posters on MN who think nothing of it.

mmm I guess I do indulge them however they are fiercely independent and can cook,look after themselves etc. Is it learned helplessness though to say "Do not forget your homework".
However as your job as secondary teacher would you expect a 12/ 13 year old to be home on their own for so long ? Look after house/dinner?

noblegiraffe too right.
I was utterly horrified to hear my friend, aged late 40s, complaining that she still has to make lunch boxes for her sons who are both in their twenties.
OP, you've had a bad experience after a bad day but I think you are right to start insisting they take a bit of responsibility for their own lives.
They also need to learn that families pull together, it's not about one person (mum) providing a service for everyone else.

Teens need to fail to learn, if they are not allowed by their parents to fail they will never learn from their own mistakes

"I get really frustrated with the parents who swoop in to rescue their kid who has forgotten his PE kit or homework or lunch, yet I have seen posters on MN who think nothing of it."

I get really frustrated when the school phones me to tell me that I need to drop my son's PE kit/lunch in because he's forgotten in - completely oblivious to the fact that I may be in a meeting/miles away at the time. Schools seem to expect parents (mums let's face it) to be constantly available for this type of thing.

Say no then. "No, sorry I'm at work. He should have remembered his kit"

They only ask you to do that so that they don't have the bother about supervising him if he's not doing PE.

If my dcs cannot get themselves off to school on time by the age of 12 or 13, I will consider myself failed as a parent. It's pretty lame if they can't do that.

Similarly, if they cannot cook themselves a basic meal at that age, I will think the same.

But I don't like the idea of them coming home to an empty house after school although I do realise this is unavoidable for many parents.

YANBU

They have a choice and from now on that choice/freedom is dependant on chores being done.

They will learn soon enough that if they behave like young children they get treated like young children.

noble I agree to some extent, but I do think the road to independence should be a slow and steady one. Each responsibily building on the last.

Expecting DC to just sort themselves out, would not seem ideal.

But to be honest, I wouldn't see the problem here as being about responsibility per se, more the lack of parental/adult interaction for those three days.

I mean, I am in the house but my DC still have the responsibility of getting themselves up and ready for school (grabbing a bit of brekky along the way). They are also responsible enough to sort out their school work timetable. And wouldn't dream of trashing the house.

This isn't really about having responsibilities versus not having any.

Ariel I agree.
I work from home and live ten mins from school. But I am not charging up there with forgotton items. DC just have to suck it up.

They were lazy and inconsiderate that particular day, this does not mean that they are generally not capable of behaving better and not mature enough to be expected to.

I love the way this thread has carried on being fiercely debated - the OP hasn't returned once! Oh well, plenty for the rest of us to mull over...

It's not a matter or whether the kids are old enough, it's if they're responsible enough to do these things. Now you've tried it out, you've found that yours clearly aren't.

At age ten I was getting myself up and ready, going off to school, coming back and sometimes putting a bit of dinner on, all on my own. I'd easily go and buy things if requested and I certainly didn't turn the house into a tip just because no one was around to tell me not to.

Noble, I sometimes do that for DS2, who has a tendency to spiral downhill when stressed, and becomes evil when not fed. If he was looking pretty perky in the morning I wouldn't, but if I know that one more small thing could tip him over the edge, then yes, I'd rescue him if I noticed.

Mind you, this week I had a tearful phone call from 10-yr-old to say 'You forgot to pack me any lunch!' Somewhat shrewishly replied that as I'd left home well before she'd got out of bed that day, maybe she and her dad between them had forgotten to pack the lunch, not me?

wordfactory "But to be honest, I wouldn't see the problem here as being about responsibility per se, more the lack of parental/adult interaction for those three days.

This isn't really about having responsibilities versus not having any."

Exactly that.

My DS1 (the younger ones too) gets ready in the morning entirely by himself and takes himself off to catch the bus on time. He has missed it once, when a new bus driver left early. He makes his own sandwiches the night before, gets his bag and uniform ready. He cooks tea sometimes too. TBH I am so disorganised easy going he gets frustrated with me forgetting things and will probably turn out super efficient!

I am there though.

And yes, I do work. I work part time when DH is home, or my parents will come and help, but I am not a single parent and I realise that must be very difficult. In this situation though, the OP has her mother who we assume is prepared to help. It should be arranged that this is what happens. Teenagers may need to learn to look after themselves, but they also need boundaries. These two are spending three days a week without them.

I don't get what has changed though. My parents out of necessity both worked full time. My younger sister went to a friend's house after tea. My brother and I came home on the school bus and our mum got in about 6pm each evening. In the holidays, we were generally left from the ages of about 13 and 15 respectively. If asked, my mum would say I wasn't particularly sensible or mature - in fact I was a real dreamer, and my brother was a pain. But they still left us because there was no alternative. I don't remember ever trashing the house, burning it down, forgetting to go to school or any of those things which children are apparently susceptible to doing. There were neighbours nearby but no grandparents or anything.

If it's expected of them, and they are taught to do it, children from a certain age ought to be able to do it, unless there are specific problems.

Teenagers may need to learn to look after themselves, but they also need boundaries. These two are spending three days a week without them. I disagree - boundaries can be the same as expectations. Just because there is no adult immediately on hand, it doesn't mean there are no boundaries.

Ariel I do think that 6pm is a whole different ball game to 8.30pm though.

6pm is different to 8:30 though. Agree boundaries can be put in place but come on a 12 and 13 year old left for hours 3 days a week ??

Re the messages from Teachers who are appalled at the lack of independence of children, I don't' enteriely disagree. But why then when they start secondary schools are their these home school contracts which the parent has to sign taking responsiblity for ensuring homework is done etc. Why is it instilled in us from the word go to be involved in our kids homework/schoo llife - I was definitely made to feel that by the school (very precious about its results) that I should be involved in this.

Excuse the spelling/typos!

OP: YANBU.

You're expecting quite a lot of them, but IMO they should be able to manage to (e.g.) get themselves to school and remember to get your dinner as well as their own.

Teenagers can learn independence without being left to their own devices.

What you did as teenagers is not answering the OPs question really is it? shes not asking what you did in the good old days.

How many posters on here would happily leave their children for that long at 12 and 13.

Ariel that is true, but I think left until 8.30pm and no-one there in the morning, would make a home feel pretty much like no-one cared if those expectations are met- certainly that's how my DH felt.

The OP doesn't really give an impression of much in the way of boundaries, but that may be a misintepretation on my part. I guess she has written it when cross, so that will skew how it sounds a bit.

I just can't imagine a situation where I left my child at home alone for 5 hours 3 times a week and got them to buy themselves a takeaway for tea. I live out of town though, so perhaps that has a bearing on it.
It just seems so uncaring. Yes, I want my children to be able to look after themselves, but I don't want to help them achieve that in a way that will make them feel that I don't give a rat's arse about them (imo)

Ariel 6pm is a whole other ballgame.

Say, you got in from school at 5pm, that would only be an hour to fiddle about, perhaps do your homework or get tea started for your parents.

There would still be three to four hours when you were there, just keeping a gentle eye on things, listening when needed etc.