to be all of a caffuffle about the toddler / road incident

[gnomeland]

DS 1(6) and DS2(3) go to school by scooter. They both can get up some speed but on the whole are safe.

There's one particularly nasty road crossing which is on a corner, but with another v quiet dead end road coming off with no pavement (which we have to walk down). Essentially at the end, you have to look 4 ways at funny angles. (realise this isn't very clear.) I hate it as it is an awkward junction.

I have told DSs that they have to stop way before the end and get onto the pavement as soon as they can (but in doing this they are out of my sight - alternative is that they stay in the middle of the road).

Today, DS1 hurt himself so was being quite slow and DS2 went up ahead. As I came round the corner I saw him stepping from the pavement onto the main road. A car came round the corner and stopped (not emergency stop).

I was very shaken because cars can come round very fast and it could have been a lot worse.

Anyway, the driver of the car gave me a real mouthful that I shouldn't allow him on his scooter and I should be holding his hand at all times on the road.

So, what do you do. Am I wrong to allow a 3 year old to nursery on this scooter. I know it was a really dangerous situation but I have tried very hard to teach them road safety. I know if only takes once etc etc but I can't help feeling that it is unreasonable to expect him to walk along permanently holding my hand.

I'm all in a turmoil about it.

I only let DD scooter in the park or garden, never on a normal pavement. She holds my hand and walks. She's very good with rules and understands "stop!" but she's also (nearly) 4yo and still irrational and impulsive.

YABU.

OP I hope you are ok.

I must admit I am surprised at the unanimity on here. I do let my 2.9 year old run ahead (usually with his big sister) up to such and such a landmark and I've been watching how he responds and obeys instructions. We live in a very built up area so lots of roads and crossings but equally cars aren't able to get up that much speed. But having read everyone on here, I will restrict him more.

I always hold onto dd2 age 3 as we have a couple of roads to cross on the school run and of course she has run ahead a few times - most recently she went on ahead and started crossing the road without me as I had stopped to help dd1 (age 5) her shoe had come off; as ds (age 7) was ahead I yelled at him to grab dd2 but he did not even see her pass him and she got half way accross the road then stopped in the middle of the road when she realised I was not still with her. She started to come back towards me and a car was coming so if I had not been able to grab her in time (while trying to shepard the other two across the road as well) there could have been an accident.

I used to work in Local Government with Road Safetry officers and looking throughthe accident stats was part of the job - children are so vulnerable on the roads and just one lapse in concentration is all it takes to become an accident statistic.

I am probably overly cautious about this but I think road safety is a far bigger issue than stranger danger when it comes to letting children play out and walk to school unnaccompanied.

There was a thread a few dats ago from strandedbear who was very shaken up. She'd done a great thing though, she'd grabbed a child, scooting ahead of his parent, who was aboutto go off the kerb into the path of a vehicle.

I posted on there, that although it goes against the MN trend, I do not think young children should be scooting near busy roads - it takes only seconds for something to go badly wrong. And I do not think they should scoot immediately by schools either, the distractions are too many and the pavements are too crowded - and again it only takes seconds for there to be a collision, or for a child jumping out of the way to mistakenly jump off the kerb.

Am I right in thinking you let them scoot ahead, out of sight, on a section of road that has no pavement?? Based on what you have said, I wouldn't let DS go ahead on that section. I would say 'when we get to X spot you stop, get off the scooter and we walk together'.

I am fairly relaxed and let DD scoot ahead of me on way to preschool. But she is always in sight and it is a wide pavement on a quiet road. I would never let her cross the road without me.

Am I right in thinking you let them scoot ahead, out of sight, on a section of road that has no pavement?? Based on what you have said, I wouldn't let DS go ahead on that section. I would say 'when we get to X spot you stop, get off the scooter and we walk together'.

I am fairly relaxed and let DD scoot ahead of me on way to preschool. But she is always in sight and it is a wide pavement on a quiet road. I would never let her cross the road without me.

No riding scooters on the road. On the path for sure, but when crossing/using the actual road they had to get off and push.

None of your explanations make the slightest bit of difference. Because this time the only reason something awful didn't happen was because the driver was alert and not moving too fast.

I would have given you a mouthful as well in the circumstances, that poor driver must have been terrified and that is your fault.

Doesn't matter how the feel about having to walk for that bit, they have to.

My kids tear along ahead (running, sometimes ds2 is on balance bike). They always stop at roads. If they did not, then I would remove the bike for a long period of time. Like you, I can't be doing the holding hands all the way to school. I have 3 kids and 2 hands. Also, I am also carrying a lunchbox, drink bottle and there's always a child whose fallen over/ dawdling so the free hand is dragging holding theirs. All the roads around ours are fairly quiet though.

I think you've been given a hard time OP as at least 50% of kids cycle/ scoot to school round our way (and a lot of those are in school Nursery). They are certainly going ahead of parents, but not out of sight.

However, in light of that junction of yours, I would have a rule that they have to walk the scooters along that particular road so they don't need to be out of sight at any time. Just for that bit of road. After that, they can ride them. I would also say take your ds2's scooter away for a week and I doubt he will do it again.

So because lots do it makes it ok? Young children need to be within grabbing distance along roads. It only takes a second for disaster to strike and I don't understand why any parent would be happy to take that risk.

Three is way too young to be shooting ahead. It only takes a friend the other side of the road, or a ball or something and a three year old would easily dash into the road. It's simply the way their brains are at that age - they do not have the impulse control.

I think you are being unfair to drivers if you take that risk again, and I also think you are being over-dramatic to say that you can see why so many people drive. For goodness sake, if it is a short journey, just let him walk, close to you, like 3 year olds are meant to. And your six year old too. My nearly 9 year old has poor impulse control when it comes to roads and I won't be trusting him on main roads on his own for a while yet.

Sirzy, it's back to the old one of: the whole of life is full of risks. You can't obliterate them. 3yr olds DO know when not to cross the road. My 2 yr olds ran away from my friend's house when she was looking after them (they're twins...let themselves out of her front door) and despite having absolute freedom they did not cross one road. They had not been taught not to let themselves out of house, or that they can only go out with adults, as our door is way too high to reach. To them it was just an adventure, but they knew full well they are not allowed to cross roads. They just kept turning right. It was very scary and friend was totally devastated (she's actually quite an over protective parent!) but they were safe because they knew the rule (and were found by an off duty police officer).

The more pressure we put on parents to do everything JUST right, then as soon as an accident happens (and they do, because they cannot be prevented) we all start blaming and judging as if every accident were preventable. It's horrendous pressure to live under because accidents do happen.

I get a bit irritated by scooters on pavements in general - where we live the pavements are quite narrow through the village and we walk quite slowly, so there is often a backlog of children on scooters in general behind us until there is a gap where we can stand to one side and let them through :)

3 year old DD2 has taken to charging ahead of me recently though (on foot). I am quite pleased she is now able to go a bit (much) faster, and generally she knows where to stop and wait -there aren't actually any roads to cross on the route though I should add. If she gets too far ahead I catch her up, and in any event there are so many people walking on school run she can't get too far. For me it's a mixture of being able to have a little bit of freedom/power but gradually learning the responsibility that goes with it.

I had a scare though once with DD1 when she was 5, she slipped my hand at a zebra crossing and ran out - luckily the car stopped, but it gave me and her a big jolt and we had a chat about always waiting to cross with mummy.

About having "poor impulse control". Well, yes they will if you never let them try and have a little responsibility. I can remember knowing at 3 never to run into the road and being irritated at my mum yelling to me to stop at the kerb, because I knew I never would go into the road. Was terrified out of my wits by Tufty the Squirrel ads, was no way I was ever going to cross the road improperly!

To be fair, I was pretty laissez faire before the day ds (he was about 4 at the time) shot off across a side road.

Thankfully, the one car on that road was travelling at a snail's pace.

My ds had excellent road sense, having been brought up in a city centre and walking everywhere. He would never run too far ahead, always stopped when I called out to him. But the thing is, very, very few children of that (or any!) age are immune to moments of complete madness. Even the sensible ones do inexplicable things.

Scooting on the road is wrong, sorry. Pavement - I have to reverse out over a pavement, road on a slope, kids can go flying down. The one thing I keep in mind above all else is a kid could be coming down on a scooter -- pavements and scooters overall, I don't think that's unreasonable. Racing off ahead isn't good though and I do think if they can't be trusted to reliably stop then they should have the scooters confiscated.

I think this is a big issue with younger siblings. One of my friends has children of a similar age and the younger one is always racing to catch up his brother (or overtake him). Unfortunately 3YOs have bugger all road safety and even 6 year olds aren't always reliable.

OP - I think you've got enough of an ear bashing. Does your DS2 know how to use the brake on his scooter? Teaching them how to brake is quite useful IME.

I don't think they are too young to learn at 3. Too young to learn and be completely safe, yes, but it's never too young to learn about road safety.

Adults and older children can do daft things too. Once when I was about 19 I nearly walked straight out on a pelican crossing, put one foot out into road and stepped back - wasn't even listening to music or anything, just in a bit of a daze (perhaps a little hung over). Cue car screeching brakes, driver yelling at me, me very embarrassed and apologetic.

Also have had several near misses in London as an adult when actually crossing the road properly on a crossing either with traffic lights or zebra. Gray's Inn Road/Theobald's Road used to be a nightmare, crossing at a zebra, all traffic stopped except the courier motorbike coming up the inside...saw several near misses/people actually injured crossing there, hope they have changed the road formation now!

Is it only me who has a problem with 'I said it wasn't a punishment, and they hadn't done anything wrong'?

The 3 year old was 'stepping from the pavement onto the main road'. That is wrong - it needed to be punished.

Sorry, but I agree with the vast majority of people on here. He should be within arm's reach. I agree car drivers should check for pedestrians before reversing and should reverse into their drives but, as an adult, if I am walking along the pavement and I hear a car engine in a drive, I will take particular care to check the car driver has seen me before walking across. Scooting children a) tend to be less aware of the noises to listen out for and also b) tend to be moving far quicker and be less able to stop if needed.

Have a seriously read someone saying 3 year olds need to be given responsibility? 3 year olds shouldn't need to take any responsibility that's the parents job.

6 or 7 year olds fair enough but 3????

Op I have a three and five year old who both scoot and scoot fast! DS is 5 and he gets off his scooter well before any road and we hold one handle of the scooter each to cross, with dd holding onto the handle of her scooter and me holding it too. They never go out of sight. Dd has this www.scootnpull.co.uk/how-it-works/ so is always beside me, I need to run a little, but it's a great compromise. DS just goes at our pace.