to be all of a caffuffle about the toddler / road incident

[gnomeland]

DS 1(6) and DS2(3) go to school by scooter. They both can get up some speed but on the whole are safe.

There's one particularly nasty road crossing which is on a corner, but with another v quiet dead end road coming off with no pavement (which we have to walk down). Essentially at the end, you have to look 4 ways at funny angles. (realise this isn't very clear.) I hate it as it is an awkward junction.

I have told DSs that they have to stop way before the end and get onto the pavement as soon as they can (but in doing this they are out of my sight - alternative is that they stay in the middle of the road).

Today, DS1 hurt himself so was being quite slow and DS2 went up ahead. As I came round the corner I saw him stepping from the pavement onto the main road. A car came round the corner and stopped (not emergency stop).

I was very shaken because cars can come round very fast and it could have been a lot worse.

Anyway, the driver of the car gave me a real mouthful that I shouldn't allow him on his scooter and I should be holding his hand at all times on the road.

So, what do you do. Am I wrong to allow a 3 year old to nursery on this scooter. I know it was a really dangerous situation but I have tried very hard to teach them road safety. I know if only takes once etc etc but I can't help feeling that it is unreasonable to expect him to walk along permanently holding my hand.

I'm all in a turmoil about it.

Your child stepped into the road.
You rely on your other infant to be the control.
You terrified a driver who might have killed your son.
Your rules are inadequate to guarantee your youngest child's safety.
Can you guess what my answer is?

He always stops - except today

It only ever takes once.

He is too young to be racing off ahead.
He doesn't understand the dangers.
You have to teach him them with actions not just words.
By teaching him to stop and hold your hand and look right then left then right again and if it's all clear then you can both cross.

My DD1 is very sensible and 5. There is no way I would let her scoot anywhere busier than a very, very residential street, well away from rush hour. She does her scooting in the park or in the pedestrianised bit outside our house. She is fine to scoot outside the house by herself, and even walk/scoot around our small estate for short periods, but it is almost entirely pedestrainised.

The 2.5yo doesn't even get to walk by a road without holding a hand. Toddlers are idiots. Sorry, but they are - they do random stuff with no warning. You can't trust anyone under about 4 or 5 to have any common sense at all (and only limited after that age, when things like cars are involved), even if they previously have. And you can't expect another small child to look after them.

Sorry, I know you probably just haven't looked at it this way before, but hopefully the near miss will help you see how to keep them safe in future.

But of course, you don't need to take anyone's advice on board if you don't like it OP, but you will have to live with the consequences if it goes wrong again and the next driver doesn't have as good reflexes, or is travelling faster.
Up to you to decide.

I am so glad he is ok you must have been very shaken, as will the poor driver have been.

DS1 is 4.6 and very sensible but I do not trust him to walk along pavement infront of me never mind scoot. They are distracted easily and I don't care if he is the only child going to nursery holding his mums hand I could never forgive myself if anything happened to him

We have set landmarks too - the five year old knows we have "holding hands gates" which are the bits where the estates join on to road pavements. She stops running and hands over anything like a scooter for the bit where there isn't actually a physical barrier between her and a car going more than 10mph, and holds hands or stays close until we get back on to a pedestrainised bit.

I'm not overprotective in other ways, but all it takes is for a driver to be a bit tired that day or the brakes not being perfect, and your child to see something exciting/be in a daydream/randomly fall over like kids do. Of course you can't completely stop them being near roads, but you can minimise the risk.

YABU -the poor driver has just had the fright of their lives. Imagine running over someones child in such circumstances and then having to live with that knowledge for the rest of your life? It is not fair to place your child or other road users in such a position.

Fallen, thank you. I'm really trying not to be defensive. It just gave me a bit of shock, that's all.

I think we're going to walk to school for a while.

I wouldn't let my 5 year old DS run/scooter away ahead of me near a busy road, never mind my nearly 3 year old DD. DS I think would stop if I shouted stop, bit not sure enough to let him go away ahead, DD no chance.

I agree with the driver.

Children of that age don't always do as they are asked to, you know that. Yes, you should be holding their hands in this situation.

The message on here is pretty loud, clear and consistent:

"Am I wrong to allow a 3 year old to nursery on this scooter."

Yes. He's too little. 3-year-olds still do silly things without thinking that can endanger their lives.

Can I just relate something that happened to me today?

My dd's are a bit apt to run ahead on the walk to school. I usually run along or yell at them to stop smart ish. They're only a few feet in front and I can grab them pretty quickly.

A police car came roaring through our village today. It overtook everything and left no room for the lorry coming the other way. The lorry had to mount the pavement to avoid it. The pavement that we were walking along.

Thank god my girls were right by me and I could instantly grab hold of them. The lorry's wheels were six inches from us, I could have touched it as it passed. I have had images in my head all day of what might have happened if my girls had been a few feet in front and out of my reach. It was past us in a couple of seconds, I'd never have got there in time.

For gods sake op learn your lesson like I had to. Make the effort. You might not be lucky next time.

Without outing myself, I have a lot of knowledge on this subject. Children under the age of 9 are unable to judge speed or distance adequately enough to be safe by themselves. Studies show this.

actually I would never let either of them cross a road by themselves. But at what age should you be able to let them walk without holding your hand?

I agree with the majority on here - your 3 year old should stay within arm's reach of you, especially if some of the way to school is on roads with no pavement (as I understand to be the case from your op).

Definately BU. Whilst I let my 7yr old walk or scoot ahead she knows she is not allowed out of my sight and if she does she is relegated back to holding onto to the buggy. No way would I let a 3 yr old be scooting or even walking near traffic without me within close grabbing distance.

Ilove that story just turned my stomach. You should report that to the police, surely thats dangerous driving on their part.

Gnome, when you can trust them to stay close by is the only answer. Every child is different. So there is no "age" as such.

But at what age should you be able to let them walk without holding your hand?

It depends on the child but imo even if they're not holding your hand, they should be walking right beside you.

If they're not sensible enough to do that, hold their hand.

I genuinely don't know at what point in time, parents started giving up/giving in to tantrums and allowing their kids to rule the roost.

So often you hear parents saying "Oh there's no way she/he will sit in the buggy" or "There's no way they'll hold my hand"

Errrr yes way....you're supposed to be the one in charge and not them

Blimey, that driver probably got the fright of his life!

I just would not risk it - they are too young. I would definitely be holding the hand of a 3 year old near a road.

My opinion is this. Three year olds on scooters belong in the park and certainly not anywhere near a busy main road. It is just simply too dangerous.

But at what age should you be able to let them walk without holding your hand?

Agree with worra that it depends on the child, and where you are walking.

Both my DS' have scooted to nursery/school since the age of 3. But I live in a very residential area, with a 20mph speed limit, and we only have 1 road to cross between home and school. Cars cannot do more than about 5mph on this road, as it is narrow. Plus they are very sensible children. They have always, without fail, stopped at the road, and know to stand back from the kerb.

My friends DS on the other hand had a tantrum yesterday because he wasn't allowed to run out in front of a car!

Ineed but that's my point really, DS2 always has until today. And DS1 has scooted since he was 3 and has always been very road aware.

But clearly that's not enough.

I think something goes loopy in their brains around 3.

When DS was 2 he was beautifully road-trained. He knew (walking) to stay close, to stop at driveways, to always stop well clear of the edge of the pavement at junctions, etc., etc., and he always always did it. I was 100% confident that he would never run out. Then he hit 3 and it was like a switch had been flipped and all common sense departed. And DD1 was quite similar (although with her, having learned from DS, I was forewarned).

But always has for how long gnome? My DS2 is 5, and its only been since he's been at school that he is allowed to scoot ahead. And I would probably have different rules if we had to go near a main road.