to be all of a caffuffle about the toddler / road incident

[gnomeland]

DS 1(6) and DS2(3) go to school by scooter. They both can get up some speed but on the whole are safe.

There's one particularly nasty road crossing which is on a corner, but with another v quiet dead end road coming off with no pavement (which we have to walk down). Essentially at the end, you have to look 4 ways at funny angles. (realise this isn't very clear.) I hate it as it is an awkward junction.

I have told DSs that they have to stop way before the end and get onto the pavement as soon as they can (but in doing this they are out of my sight - alternative is that they stay in the middle of the road).

Today, DS1 hurt himself so was being quite slow and DS2 went up ahead. As I came round the corner I saw him stepping from the pavement onto the main road. A car came round the corner and stopped (not emergency stop).

I was very shaken because cars can come round very fast and it could have been a lot worse.

Anyway, the driver of the car gave me a real mouthful that I shouldn't allow him on his scooter and I should be holding his hand at all times on the road.

So, what do you do. Am I wrong to allow a 3 year old to nursery on this scooter. I know it was a really dangerous situation but I have tried very hard to teach them road safety. I know if only takes once etc etc but I can't help feeling that it is unreasonable to expect him to walk along permanently holding my hand.

I'm all in a turmoil about it.

A car reversing onto the drive is still going to be going across the pavement, so the same risk to a child would occur, imo, Gravity.

And holding your child's hand/keeping them close is about keeping them safe, not about bending over backwards to accomodate cars.

ragged, I think most people are saying a 3yo should be near his parent whilst scooting, not out of sight, at speed and on a road without pavements.

As opposed to being in a pushchair.

I think I would tell your son he has to walk from now on as he couldn't follow instructions and nearly had an accident.

This case isn't an issue of bad driving though so to try to move the responsibily to drivers is wrong. Drivers should of course be aware but the parents still need to keep their child in grabbing distance

Just to calm things down a bit I actually do cringe when I see small children way ahead of their parents, whether scooting or running. Small children are unaware and unpredicatable, and things like kungfu described are unforgiveable.

Of course I do. I also understand stopping distances and blind spots, and that a child who just appears (as SDTG describes) an inch from your bumper is going to get hit, even if you're doing 5mph.

I hope you don't drive, Gravity, because you appear to believe that motorists can have spidey senses. They don't.

*Skybluepearl - as you haven't read the whole thread, you will have missed Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme's post, so I will quote it for you here, as it illustrates very clearly how a child can be in danger even if they are very road-safety aware and always behave safely.

"Can I just relate something that happened to me today?

My dd's are a bit apt to run ahead on the walk to school. I usually run along or yell at them to stop smart ish. They're only a few feet in front and I can grab them pretty quickly.

A police car came roaring through our village today. It overtook everything and left no room for the lorry coming the other way. The lorry had to mount the pavement to avoid it. The pavement that we were walking along.

Thank god my girls were right by me and I could instantly grab hold of them. The lorry's wheels were six inches from us, I could have touched it as it passed. I have had images in my head all day of what might have happened if my girls had been a few feet in front and out of my reach. It was past us in a couple of seconds, I'd never have got there in time."

Also people are posting using the experiences of their roads or at least the roads they use and have experience of - and also the drivers they experience and the way they drive. I drive carefully and sensibly. I reverse v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y - not one of those people who zooms out backwards!

The shape of our road, our positioning on it and the frequency of double parked cars up and down it means that visibility is very poor. I always look, (I have a relative who was disabled in a serious car accident so I'm only too aware of the risks) but I do expect pedestrians to use a bit of common sense and if it is obvious I haven't seen them, I expect them to stop walking. Then I can look embarrassed and mouth "sorry" at them out of the window.

I appreciate it's my 'responsibility' but I am human and I live in a world full of other humans and I expect us all to use a bit of common sense.

I have also lived on roads where there was perfectly clear visibility almost up and down the entire roads. Some roads are busy and some roads are quiet.

Everyone - pedestrian or driver needs to be a bit more aware of what is happening around them. As a pedestrian you might have the law on your side, but that isn't going to stop you from being seriously injured if someone just doesn't see you.

Most of us are drivers at times and pedestrians at others. Many of us are, or have been, the parents of small children. Drivers should be careful, parents should be careful, small children should be supervised. That's all.

gnome - you would never let them cross a road by themselves, but you are happy to have them scoot along IN the road?

Bizarre...

Just clarify the scooting out of sight on the road bit (although not making excuses), the road is a dead end narrow road which leads to the park. It has no pavements but only residents use it (about 4 of them). It's not on a slope.

They are not normally allowed to go very far ahead of me (although admittedly within not within grabbing distance).

On this occasion, as DS1 had stopped/was going very slowly, the choice was either DS2 nipped round the corner onto the pavement, or he stopped in the middle of the road to wait for me. He has been taught to get onto the pavement as soon as possible, rather than to wait in the road.

I don't know why I feel the need to clarify really, just to point out that they are not in the habit of going at high speeds, down hill, round corners in the middle of the road!

Equally jenai, I hope you dont drive since if you do, by your own admission you must be routinely reversing whilst not being totally sure there is nothing or no-one behind you!

x-posts

Gravity, basically it's the idiot rule (again). Everyone (pedestrians and motorists alike) needs to be prepared for fuckwittery from other road users, wheeled and otherwise. It's a shame, but there it is.

skybluepearl I also hope then that you are going to take 100% responsibility on the one chance occasion that your child doesn't stop because they're excited/cross/distracted.

But I cannot be 100% sure! Nobody can! Not when there's the possibility of something approaching at speed, a small something that I cannot see above the rear windscreen!

At the end of the day OP your child could have had a nasty accident. We all take risks every day, so it's about minimising those risks. You don't have to justify/clarify yourself - you just need to decide the level of risk you are comfortable with. From what you have described I wouldn't be happy with that level, but then I always err on the side of caution.

Gravity I think that even if you check and check again, and check your blind spots and then continue to check whilst reversing slowly, you still can't be completely sure a child hasn't scooted/run from somewhere because you can only look in one direction at a time. And children are speedy little blighters!

All you can do is know that there isn't a pedestrian/cyclist/motorbike right behind you or imminently behind you and then progress slowly hoping that anyone who turns up in that time will stop at least for long enough for you to see them and stop yourself.

Thats true jenai. I do agree with that and try to teach the boys to expect the unexpected.

pre- school run looming...best go now.

enjoyed thr debate

hope op keeps scooting. it sounds like just one of those things to me..you cant control everything

I agree Jenai.

OP just want you to know that I have my 5 & 3 yo's scooting to school and they are often ahead of me. Reading the above, I am thinking again about this and whether it is the right decision - but just wanted you to know that you are certainly not the only person who has decided this is ok in the past.

As with you, my kids are generally sensible with good road sense (given their ages) and have, to date, always stopped at roads and agreed landmarks and obeyed other agreed rules - sanction is that if anything is not done they lose scooter for rest of day.

Everyone is right that there is still a risk (and not a minute risk) that they will forget or deliberately disobey one day. There's no right answer - but we have to make decisions based on balance of risk.

You were ABSOLUTELY out of order. You say that there is a part of your journey where 'they are out of my sight - alternative is that they stay in the middle of the road'. There are other alternatives-ditch the scooters or make them get off and stay close to you for that part for starters! I just can't believe you would try to justify this. The driver was right to give you a mouthfull you risked him having the serious injury or even death of a child on his conscience for the rest of his life. My four year old knows that when on her scooter she scoots by my side or she doesn't scoot at all. I am by no means an over protective parent-just sensible and also considerate to other road users!

ds4 scoots on the school run but by busy roads i use the strap on the pushchair and hook it onto his scooter so he has to stay by my side, you can actually buy specific scooter straps to hold onto now i think?

Yanbu to be upset at being told off, but the scooters are a bit dangerous for a school run. It is sometimes hard to remember how young a 3 year old is when they are usually with their siblings and seem mature for their age. Yesterday I went to a very large thrift store that my 3yo and I go to often. there were no trolleys left so he said 'I'm going to look at the toys' and I let him run over to them. The toys are at the back away from exits so I figured I would walk round via the furniture and meet him over there. I took no more than 5 minutes to get there and he was not there so I was heading to the other side to see if he had come looking for me and they announced him as lost on the tannoy. I run over and find him surrounded by about ten older women who were all fuming at me, saying things like ' where on earth were you?' ' he's been lost for fifteen minutes - do you not understand how important it is to stay with your baby?' (not true, it wasn't even 15 mins when we went back to the car after we looked round some more)... Instead of explaining, I got defensive at all the people patronising me and implying I was an unfit mother... He started crying (told me back in the car that one of the women grabbed him before he got to the toys and had taken him to the tills right away, if she hadn't he would have been sat happily in the toys waiting for me.) They said 'shame on you' as I carried him away.

My point is, yes, I was in the wrong, but because I am used to him being with his older siblings I forgot it wasn't ojay to let him just go ahead. The lecturing old cows were right, I just didn't like hearing it.

I saved a neighbours DD from being run over by a reversing car off a drive on the way to school. We were all walking, the driver was oblivious until I screamed and hit the back of the car. There are idiots out there.

How scary for you, hope you are ok. My DS (2.5) loves his scooter but outside of a park he does not go one millimetre without holding my hand and that won't change any time soon. Kids are unpredictable, and while they might be totally obedient 99 times out of 100, that single incidence can be enough.

The driver was right, but it's horrible to be made to feel bad like that, don't bet yourself up.