to be all of a caffuffle about the toddler / road incident

[gnomeland]

DS 1(6) and DS2(3) go to school by scooter. They both can get up some speed but on the whole are safe.

There's one particularly nasty road crossing which is on a corner, but with another v quiet dead end road coming off with no pavement (which we have to walk down). Essentially at the end, you have to look 4 ways at funny angles. (realise this isn't very clear.) I hate it as it is an awkward junction.

I have told DSs that they have to stop way before the end and get onto the pavement as soon as they can (but in doing this they are out of my sight - alternative is that they stay in the middle of the road).

Today, DS1 hurt himself so was being quite slow and DS2 went up ahead. As I came round the corner I saw him stepping from the pavement onto the main road. A car came round the corner and stopped (not emergency stop).

I was very shaken because cars can come round very fast and it could have been a lot worse.

Anyway, the driver of the car gave me a real mouthful that I shouldn't allow him on his scooter and I should be holding his hand at all times on the road.

So, what do you do. Am I wrong to allow a 3 year old to nursery on this scooter. I know it was a really dangerous situation but I have tried very hard to teach them road safety. I know if only takes once etc etc but I can't help feeling that it is unreasonable to expect him to walk along permanently holding my hand.

I'm all in a turmoil about it.

At that age they should be by your side, not scooting off. It is your job as a parent to keep them safe.

Thank goodness for the driver managing to stop - I am sure they are still shaken today. I would had a go too if I had been the driver It could have been so much worse - if a car had been behind them and gone into them or if they had not been able to stop in time and hit your son. I dont mean to be harsh but if you were sittingg in ITU now you would not be questioning if you had done the right thing. If you children want to scoot take the scooter when you pick them up and go to the park then walk home.

I speak as someone who has seen a toddler knocked over by a car - fortunatley not killed. It just takes a second.

OP you are getting a flaming here, hope you are ok and heed the advice of this thread. I am a huge advocate of reins, I dont care that half the world hate them. We live in a busy town and my toddler is adept at slipping out my grasp so the backup of reins is an excellent safety feature for us. I would never let a young child scoot near a road, I bloody hate the scooter trend.

I had the same problem, but I was run ragged with them. Shouting and keeping hold of younger one at all times. I often thought why do I let them take the scooters to school but thought you can't spoil all their fun. As long as you are within arms reach, I would say its ok. Could trust the older one as he was 4 years older.

Believe me, it was a challenge, but all the time thinking 'what if?'

Sorry OP, not going to flame you because we all make mistakes.

But I do think that you made a mistake.

When I'm driving this is my biggest bugbear.

I would hate to have a collision with a child. I would carry the guilt with me for the rest of my life. I don't think I would ever get over it. I am constantly on the lookout for small children who aren't being appropriately supervised.

Yet this means I am more concerned for the safety of your child than you are because you are prepared to take the risk that I'm not looking out of the other window for a cyclist at the moment your DS chose to ride out in front of me and before I could stop. And I am fearful that someone is taking that risk.

Walk to school, use scooters in safe places.

My Dad gave me advice once when I had my motorbike, but I think it is relevant here:

Always assume that there is an idiot driver round the corner, and be prepared to deal with them.

IE never trust that a driver will brake/notice you/be looking/be at the right speed/won't randomly brake/etc

Yabu. The driver would have been shit scared. You younger child is not old enough to have a complete understanding of road saftey. Your older one should not be his chaperone. What if (god forbid) something happened while you older as was there? Would he always feel responsible? I think what you are doing is dangerous and putting to much responsibility on your older child. I am not surprised the driver was angry tbh.

Thank you everybody who has given advice.

You are right, I have judged it wrong. I think it's true, I probably do treat DS2 as older than he is as he is so desperate to be like DS1.

I probably am an advocate of acceptable risk (I actually would let a 9 year old go to the shop) but admit I have made a mistake over this.

I had a proper chat with them over breakfast. I told them both that I had been doing some thinking about yesterday and that I didn't think that I was doing my job as a Mummy properly and keeping them safe.

I said that we would have to walk from now on and they must stay close by. I said it wasn't a punishment, and they hadn't done anything wrong, but I was frightened by what could have happened and that I need to look after them.

DS1 not happy about it but he walked to school fine. DS2 decided that, in that case, he would go in the pushchair.

thank you.

Hi .Come to this late .The thing is however sensible your 3 yo is.Say (and I don't believe this is true but just say) you could trust him 100% , the driver doesn't know that does she?
This is my bugbear as a driver. I don't KNOW that a child pelting towards the road is going to stop.It ios scary for the driver.You shouldn't be putting them in that position

oopsi Yes, I've started to become aware of this. I have a non-bolting toddler who really wouldn't have it in mind that she could step away from me or off a pavement, but in her brightly coloured coat she must look like a hazard to drivers when she's stopped to examine something on the kerbside.

I've been happy to have her on my left (opposite my shoulder bag) even if that means she's on the outside, but I'm thinking I might need ot raise my game a bit and carry my bag in the other hand to keep her on the inside.

You are stuffed, OP. If you have your 3yo in a buggy you'll have people on here queuing up to criticise "He's too old for that, just get him a scooter for longer journeys, scooters are great, totally reliable" and then other people flame you for letting him ride a scooter after all (sigh).

My nearly 8yo nearly got hit yesterday, he impulsively decided to scoot across the road (sigh). He's less reliable & sensible now than when he was 3.

I used to let my DD's scoot to school, then scooter broke (thank you god) so now we walk. It's a nice chance to hold hands imho. I think you have handled it v well gnome, and they will get used to it v quickly and enjoy an extra chat time.

I don't think you need to stop scooting. You just need to be sure you are with them for that dangerous bit. And that they don't routinely zip too far ahead. I think minimising risk is an obvious thing to do, but Im not sure you can remove it completely. Personally I think the idea of strapping a fit 3 year old into a buggy every day is ridiculous. And reins at 3??? Im not sure we can organise our children to be totally free of risk in thier lives. My 4 year old DS got hit by a driver reversing out of her drive (as did I). So he shouldnt have been scooting at 4? Well, personally I think the driver should have de-iced her rear windows and looked as she reversed onto a pavement. He now knows he needs to keep an eye out for reversing cars. And whilst I accept that children are not very road aware at that age, equally it is something they need to learn, it wont suddenly appear at 8 or whatever. (OK, I am aware that distance/speed perception kicks in then-ish, but road sense needs more that just that I would say.) My friends cotton-wool wrapped 7 year old has no road sense what so ever...how safe is this?

OP we have same situation, DD1 (5) and DD2 (almost 3) and scoot to school. DD2 scooted into a road the other day, luckily no car. I am not intending to get a strap for the scooter, you know the wrist straps that you can attach instead of reins to a toddler, and attach it round the scooter handle bars kind of like a lead, and keep hold of her along busy roads.

The driver shouldn't have given you a mouthful but I can see why he was shaken up, would have been awful if he had hit your DS.

3yo=hold hands
No more to it IMO.

Actually, I'm a bit irritated now with the number of car drivers saying how scooting toddlers annoy them. If you are concerned that a toddler might run in the road, what is so bloody unreasonable about just slowing down?? Is it really that much to ask? Surely I am not the only one who routinely drives carefully past children without resenting doing it?

Perhaps children should be locked up, like cyclists, who also dare to inconvenience car drivers.

Rant over.

Because even a slow moving car can injure a child if it scoots out from nowhere in front of you.

I agree gravity, I think if you are drive in a residential area then you should do so slowly. Our pavements are too narrow to have a buggy and a child side by side, so holding hands or reins are impossible. So what should we do

I don't resent driving past children but I do resent having to watch our for several children running and scooting into the road when it would be so much easier if each child's parent just watched out for them.

So you'd like drivers to tootle along a 2 miles an hour just in case some over-excited toddler comes hurtling into the road on an out of control scooter? Yeah - very sensible thinking there!

Hmm. Well I take my 8yo ds to school every day and we walk there and back. We have to walk down a busy main road, then cross a dual carriageway and the rest of the way is down a B road with a very narrow pavement.

We've had incidents of cars coming down the B road (which is also quite narrow) so close to the pavement that we've had to dive onto the embankment at the side. We've also had cars drive across the pedestrian crossing of the carriageway when we've been halfway across (green man showing) and we've had cars pull out of driveways onto the pavement without looking first.

So yes, I would say that in this instance you should not, unfortunately, allow your kids to ride scooters so close to the main road. Especially if they are out of your sight at what sounds like a complicated junction.

Yes car drivers should be more considerate, they should not speed, they should not run lights, they should be aware of pedestrians but unfortunately all they want to do is get to work as quickly as possible. So you need to keep your children with you, esp at the age of 3.

Children are unpredictable. Even my 8yo has very little road sense despite having done a road awareness course at school and walking to school and back with me every day. He has still run out from parked cars to get across the road because his excitement or the thrill of the chase has got too much when playing.

At the point you mention, I would insist that they dismount from their scooters, walk with you, then get back on when it's safer.

And fwiw, from a pedestrian's pov there is nothing worse than kids on scooters tearing past you on the pavement, then stopping just ahead to wait for their parents and tearing past you once more. This can go on all the way to school and it is very very annoying.

OP I've deliberately stayed off this thread until now, but I think you have handled the flaming you've got really well, and also handled the change in opinion with your children really well as well. I have to say that I think you have made the right decision to stop the scootering but it takes a big person to step back and think I got that wrong. Good for you! I hope you are all ok after your scare.

I'd like to see parents taking responsibility.

And yes, if you let your child run/scoot off so far that they can't hear you, and you can't shout at or grab them, that also means taking responsibility for any injury they might sustain as a result of running in front of a car.

And yes, perhaps apologising to the car driver for putting them through that moment of horrendous fear and stress when you slam the brakes on and hope to god that the car will stop in time.

Disclaimer: this doesn't apply to cars being driven irresponsibly, but then there are already laws for this.

There don't seem to be many people on here concerned about pedestrians on the pavement - ie the place we're supposed to walk on. Kids wizzing along on scooters are a hazard to other people, not just themselves.

Who said the cars weren't driving slowly anyway?

It's not always about slowing down, it's also about a small kid randomly shooting off the pavement bang in front of the car.

And about reversing from driveways with tiny children bombing alone the pavements.