To expect DH to be home before 8pm at least one day each week?

[Belleflowers]

Getting a bit over the whole largely absent husband thing now

Been together 16yrs, married for 9

2 kids under 6

I'm SAHM, he is on v good salary, works in city

BUT IS NEVER HERE

Away on global work visits, deadlines, weekend deadlines....

Just fed up of being at the bottom of the pecking order.

Have raised these 2 kids largely overseas but now back in UK thank goodness, to be closer to my support networks

So am I being unreasonable to expect the father of my children to be home for tea with us all at least one evening each week? Seems like I have just been putting up with a lovely but absent partner for YEARS now

feel a bit sad to be honest

if anyone else has a similar DH with ling working hrs in finance, how do you cope with your kids and life in general, knowing he is 'there' but practically not really?

OP do you know how exhausting it is commuting into London and doing that sort of job every day? I'm the one who does it in our house and sometimes im lucky to remember what day it is, let alone have time to think about texting my husband. My friends know that i will reply to their texts but probably not this week.

it's a grind but it's a job and a good one at that. Don't knock him until you've tried it.

I just posted similar comments to fiorentina but it went up in smoke. You can 'have words' with your DH and ask him to work less, but you need to be prepared for the fact it may make no difference. I know for me the hours I work are the hours I work.

drama you took the words out of my mouth. I don't think anyone who hasn't worked in that environment has ANY idea how inflexible the work is. I had a contract once that specified I had to 'work the hours required for the role', and if that was 7am -10pm, so be it.

Talk to him OP, but try to understand what he is up against.

But why should op have to have endless understanding of her dh's career? Why can't she say "I've had enough, I don't want to be alone all the time?"

Op, rest assured, there are many people who maintain comfortable lifestyles and want for nothing on far more sensible hours.

Graydon Carter (editor of Vanity Fair, so fairly top-notch job I would have thought) has famously said that he left work at 5.30pm when his children were young.

If you want someone with autonomy over their working hours then you need to aim a little higher than a wage slave .

My boss always used to leave work before me and earned at least 10x my salary.

I know what it's like but I also have a lot of sympathy for the OP. This isn't what she signed up for from what she's said.

A relationship needs two happy people in it to make it work - you can't just tell the other miserable person to suck it up.

YANBU

Phone call with reasonable excuse if DH is going to be home much after 7 and he has an hours commute.

I'd say he's well trained, but actually he likes to leave his works computing and soldering for his hobby computing and soldering. So he may be home, but he's likely to be in his shed.

thanks again all

well, have had words...as I cooked his tea for him ffs I said I dont care what youve done all day, where youve been, whatever - you MUST think about contacting us - your family - at some point in that day

he laughed at it. yep. he clearly thinks I'm bonkers for suggesting it. Sooo frustrating. He explained that it is what it is, he seems to think it wont always be like this, of course he said he'd like to do more, but it. is what it is.

i said I felt worthless, said Ds's friends dad paid me more attention, that he needed to think about what he's doing, as I feel like no more than a babysitter of his kids on some of the longest days (like yest and today). He retorted with why dont I get a job then...but thwn went on to say he knows that the reason he is doing well is beause childcare and home running is taken care of by me!

off to bed, am fully exhausted with him and his brick wall

and drama - yes, believe me, I've done the commute thing, the work thing etc

I'm not oblivious to the demands of the working world, worked from home when DS was small so have done both sides of the work thing, so to speak.

To me, it's basically about priorities - all I need is for him to contact me more, NOT a big ask. He now knows more than he did yesterday, so will see what he comes up with.

Have said I'm not his mother, he can do whatever, but he needs to realise that anything can happen in a day...and to care a bit more (or at least act like he gives a about his wife and kids) Sorry - I'm annoyed with him!

thank you for the space to get this out in the open instead of swimming around my head though

FWIW, OP, I was so narked when my DH came home tonight (9.30pm) that he and I ended up having a very frank discussion (again). I tried to stay calm and told him what I'd like to change. He seems to think I just want him to earn more money, which I don't, so I was able to set him straight on that.

I am somewhat hopeful that he got the message. Good luck OP.

Hi Belleflowers

I wrote you a huge long answer and it vanished

More briefly, I was you 20 years ago so I totally get it. Kept wanting things to change but they never did ..and I realise now it was never going to happen. I married a loving, loyal but v ambitious, hard-working and determined man, we are still together and very happy and I don't think the kids have suffered at all; they love and get on well with their dad (he was excellent at having fun with them at weekends and that's what they remember) .. I was the one who found it hard when they were young :(

What worked for me was stopping looking to my DH as my main source of company through the week, getting together with other mums in the same situation to share teatimes once a week until the little horrors throwing food around drove us mad and we had to pack it in making my own life as full as possible and going back to work part-time when the youngest went to school. We argued for years about the crazy hours DH worked and when I eventually after ages and ages accepted nothing would ever change, and stopped fighting against them, it was actually a relief.

We've talked since about the ten-year period when we used to argue a lot, and both wish now we had appreciated the other one's point of view and been more supportive, however we loved one another and got through it OK. What I understand more in hindsight is the huge responsibility DH felt; the pressure of having me and the kids depending on him holding down his job as the only breadwinner weighed heavily on him at times and he was quite a young dad trying to make his way in a competitive environment. Tbh, he also enjoyed his job; doing well mattered to him a lot and was part of his character really. That was never going to change.

That was a bit of a saga .. not sure how much of it strikes a chord but just my own experience more than 20 years on. I'm not advocating putting up with being unhappy, but you need to look to yourself, not just your DH, to change things for the better.

Btw, I'm not sure that expecting your DH to phone and text you through the day is helpful. It's one more thing to get cross about when he doesn't find the time to do what you've asked. Just get on with your own busy day. I'd focus on planning nice family activities and sometimes stuff to do as a couple at the weekend - that is really important - don't let him off the hook about that!

Best of luck :)

It's tricky, I'll give you that. We're actually in the reverse situation - I leave the house at 6.30am, and am not home until 7pm, as I have a 2 hour commute each way. We are very lucky that DP has a job 10 mins from home, and does DDs drop off/pick up every day. I was made redundant about 18 months ago, and this was the only job I could find, doing what I do.... I see DD for 30 mins in the AM, and the same in the PM. My DP could have written something very similar to your OP. You do what you have to do for a while sometimes.....
Weekends are very precious family time. Is there any way you can stress that with your DH?

Btw, I'm not sure that expecting your DH to phone and text you through the day is helpful

I agree. I don't think anyone where I work contacts their family during the working day. Obviously if you're going to be home much later than expected that's another matter.

Similar situation here - three children under five and husband who works in the city. The difference is that we made the choice to move a couple of hours away so he only comes home for weekends. It works for us as he has no choice to make during the week (ie gym after work or hurry home for five minutes with the children), we love the countryside and it makes weekends like Christmas. I know it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea but we really didn't see much of him during the week before (we were overseas too) and this way at least I'm not waiting for him to come home every evening (used to get very tiring as he'd just never know when he'd be home). 'Tis the nature of the job. It also means I get the remote during the week...

I haven't read the entire thread but just wanted to say YANBU to feel the way you do. I also have a dh who works long hours, alarm goes off 5:45am, out the door by 6:15 and not home till 7:30-8 most nights.
He also works Saturday once a fortnight. Can be lonely, frustrating and exhausting.
In terms of ways to deal with it I enforced the Saturdays to be once s fortnight instead of once a week and also that he starts later once a fortnight to help in the mornings (3 dc under 5) and one early night
home a fortnight. We also plan breaks even if it's just taking time off and booking a cheap cottage- doesn't have to be an expensive holiday. Making the most of when he's around and being quite
structured about it has helped.

I'm not judging anyone elses dh on here or making assumptions about the scope of their job, but I'm going to throw something out there for discussion...

A few people have said on here big hours = big money and in a lot of cases men just can't cut back of they'll miss out on promotions, lose clients, reduce earnings etc. I do understand that can be the case in some industries. BUT... Do you think some of this is because they don't have to change??

Ok for example I work in a typically corporate environment, I have a reasonably senior position and earn almost as much as dh. Before dc
I worked long hours, out socialising, deadlines, etc etc.
I thought "there is no way I can come back to this job, with childcare
pick ups and drop offs, sickness, etc"
But I did go back and I just made it work, I did cut my hours, got
selective about after work events, and made sure I got everything done in time to leave when I had to. In short, I cut my hours, still did
a good job. Got promoted- twice. (stealth boast!)

I adapted my work to fit my family because i HAD to. I just don't think
my dh felt he HAD to in the same way.
Does anyone else think women are better at juggling family and work,
and that men just automatically assume they can't make changes at work without actually really attempting to make the changes? Or maybe i was just lucky and I am being a little harsh.

I guess I'm on a similar train of thought to bibbitybobbity..

highlandcoo your response made me feel better and reassess some of my feelings towards my DH. I am in a similar position to the OP. I do think I need to change my perspective a little too. It's hard when you have very young children. You tend to lose a sense of yourself and put any energy you have into obsessing about creating the perfect family. Some things aren't going to change and you need to understand how to make them better for yourself and then it will have a knock on effect to you attitude to everything else.

Earning lots of money is so addictive. Even if you know it's having negative effects on your life it is so hard to walk away from it.
DH is not as bad now as he was when he was more junior, but 8pm would be pretty standard still. He would normally be home by 7pm at least once a week though - the kids LOVE it!

Long hours come with the territory I'm afraid. Life may well be much better if he changed jobs and you made a lifestyle change, but be sure that's what you want before you make too much of an issue about his hours.

Belleflowers, you spoke about being at the bottom of the pecking order, I described it in a similiar way to my husband as being at the 'bottom of the list'. With a little more thought I realised I wasn't even on the list.

The crux of the matter appears to be your relationship with your husband; you don't feel valued or a priority. Other posters have spoken about whether he is 'present' or not when he is at home. There appears to be a lack of connection between the two of you and that is why you are noticing your interactions with other men.

Families and relationships can survive and thrive in many different permutations of being from long working hours to unemployment, and long term separations etc. However, at the core of all these arangements is a desire and commitmment to spend some time together as a family and as a couple.

What can you do to renew your connection? ( eg joint family activity Sunday morning and shared lunch; meeting husband in the city once a week)

How much time do you want? (eg a phone call when he is on his way home from work)(( I work as a kindy teacher and never make calls home, its not just folks who work in the City who shun personal calls at work.))

How much time will your husband make for you? Is it enough for you?

Can you get some sense of value and connection another way eg. volunteer, work, study, friendships?

I understand it is a lonely place to be Belleflowers.

shake I think what you're saying is similar to my experience and to many of my friends'.

With me the kids are central and I plan everything around them.

Many men do the opposite. Work is central and they try and fit the kids in around that.

This difference in perspective seems, to me, to be the reason why, so often, that it's the woman always taking up the slack while the man forges a career.

op can I just mention one thing that concerns me. I have every sympathy with you and really do know just where you're coming from. But these constant mentions of other men I find a bit odd / worrying. What's that all about?

I think you are simplifying his role slightly by thinking he should 'just leave'. I was in the same situation as you for a long time and I was well aware that DH couldn't just leave when he felt like it, it's unprofessional apart from anything else. He would frequently get calls at 3 am (he's a surgeon) and still does but not to the same extent. We decided to change tack. He cut his hours over a period of time, I went back to work part time and it's worked out fine. Have you thought about suggested that to him, that he tries to arrange a cut in hours and you perhaps go back to work?

I used to work in a law firm where it was the norm for all people (from Junior level to Senior) to be on-site and available until well into the evening, it's just how law firms operate, remote working not encouraged. Would often field calls from irate wives/girlfriends/husbands demanding to speak to their DP/DH/DW or wanting to know when they'd be home and these people would be stick in client meetings that often they'd been in for hours. You can't do private phone calls or messages in that situation, not on at all.

Do you genuinely think people push themselves like that every day for fun? That they wouldn't rather be at gone with a loved one ??? Give your DH a break and stop feeling so sorry for yourself.

If he works in an investment bank or similar then 'cutting back' the hours isn't really an option - you're either in or you're out.

It is totally dickish macho culture and I'm baffled by how it works since so many people must be under so much strain and really not doing their best work. I've asked City friends and relatives why banks don't just employ more people on reasonable wages and hours - there's a lot of waffle about diluting the pay etc, but basically it's because they are men who like to feel important. Sorry, sidetrack.

OP, you seem pretty self-aware - do you think you are about to have an affair? It doesn't sound like these other dads would need to do much to make you feel good? A bit of me thinks you deserve it after being ignored but obviously I wouldn't advocate that, at all

I think the calling/contacting through the day isn't practical, the together time needs to be structured in a bit more than that.

Do you genuinely think people push themselves like that every day for fun? That they wouldn't rather be at gone with a loved one ??? Give your DH a break and stop feeling so sorry for yourself.

This does rather beg the question of what they are doing it for, though. Money and status, not a joint ambition of the OP's.

And I think the OP has already given her DH a break - his entire domestic life is getting a break.

I think the issue is- you can't have it all. There are upsides and downsides to everything.
You have chosen a lifestyle where your dh works excessive hours, cutting out a lot of family time with you, but the upside is he presumably earns big bucks in a high status job.
If you wanted more of an equal balance in your lives, you would no doubt have partnered someone who wasnt bothered about having such a manic job, but then you would probably have had to share the responsibility for earning.

It sounds as if you think the grass is greener op. trouble is, having partnered this man, had kids and watched him work his way up the career ladder, I think it's going to be very hard to move the goal posts. I can understand him feeling very hacked off if you suddenly announce that you want him to radically downsize - he's spent years climbing to this position

I am sympathetic in that it sounds a lonely existence for you, and not one I would want, and hopefully you can make some small changes to make you feel more appreciated, but tbh I don't think the situation will change radically.

The other thing I would advise is going all out to re establish your own career or some sort of worklife (why not use some of those big bucks to pay a nanny?) Because the risk for women in your position is that after trailing along in your husbands wake for years while they climb the ladder, you'll find yourself with an even emptier existence once the kids grow up.

My husband leaves at 6.30 everyday and is home at 8.15, the kids know they are adored and look forward to family time at the weekend. I am solely responsible for all things mOnday to Friday but if I need him I could pick up the phone however it pisses me off when he's distracted and I wish I hadn't rung! The long hours don't bother me now- they're not in any way flexible! But what really pisses me off is his fucking blackberry!!! He's been at work all day- he has been sat on a train for 2 hours and STILL needs to send an email as I dish up dinner?! That's when I lose my rag and he gets 'the chat'!! Blackberrys are the root of all things evil.....