To be infuriated with Keith Vaz on the grooming of girls by Asian men

[mumzy]

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

I would allow it for my daughter or my foster daugter so why should a child in a home be treated any diffrent

If your daughter believed your house would be burned down with you inside, acid thrown in her mother's face, and her younger sister would be gang raped you might be suprised at what she would do, whether yuo allowed it or not.

i totally agree with the OP. Nearly swerved off the road listening to Vaz yesterday, and the previous evening , listening to the Radio 4 news. Their priority, as always, was to immediately promote the fact that race played no part in the crimes and anybody who tried to say otherwise was racist. Hardly any mention of the appalling crimes themselves, the poor girls and their families, the failing of social services and that fact that welfare professionals knew this was going on years ago but would not act for fear of being branded racist. On my local radio station yesterday there was a spokesperson for the Muslim community saying that everybody's priority now (apart from remembering that this was NOT a racial issue) should be the care of the offender's families who would be struggling to cope. Again, absolutely no mention of the victims. The presenter of the show did not challenge him on this but thanked him profusely for pointing that out. Unbelievable.

I think Mumzy has this absolutely right. These men should be ruthlessly prosecuted. We need to look at how men in this country can grow up with the attitude that it is OK to target defenceless girls and women. To suggest, as I heard a man on TV last night, that a young girl out alone is fair game for sexual exploitation is as shocking as it would be to suggest that if you walk round with a handbag you should expect it to be stolen.

The problem as far as I am aware is not Asian men in general. There are very few cases of Indian men being involved or from other asian countries China etc. The problem seems to be Pakistani Muslims and other Shiites. The Sunnis that I know are as appalled by these actions as the rest of us.

The PC brigade are the real problem in this country for not dealing with these issues. The Livingstone enquiry labelling organisations as institutionaly racist was an enourmous disaster for this country. The leads in that case were not followed up not from racist motives but from police corruption.

Welshexpat What do you mean???
It isn't a general problem with the Shiite community. Most Pakistanis are sunnis anyway.
Of course all normal people, including the sunnis you know, as well as many shiites too would be appalled by these actions.
As far as I can see, its a group of nasty paedophiles who have grouped together and all happen to be Pakistani Muslim men.
There are plenty of paedophiles from most other nationalities too unfortunately.

I don't think they are a group of pedophiles as such. They are just a group of men who have no respect for women or girls (I imagine they don't treat their own women at home that great), especially young vulnerable White girls who being outside their own community means that they can abuse them with less consequencies and feel no guilt about it.

This article shows the police didn't take action sooner in this case in Rochdale, despite evidence from various agencies, because they were so concerned about being labelled as racist www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9254982/Rochdale-grooming-trial-police-knew-about-sex-abuse-in-2002-but-failed-to-act.html. I think this case throws up a lot of other issues which have been brewing in this country for a long time, including the reputation of the police force. I do think racism is at the heart of it. I've worked in Rochdale and surrounding areas and know large parts of it are segregated on race: housing, schools, employment. The Asian community are subjected to racism by the white community and vice versa. I do think this is an example of Asian men using white girls because they think they are inferior human beings so using them as sex toys didn't bother them. The attitudes of both coomunities to each other are long standing and intrenched and nothing is going to change unless an open and honest discussion is had about finding solutions to this very complex problem.

I don't necessarily think they think white girls are inferior. I think they targetted them because it was easier and less messy than going for girls in their own community where there could be repercussions. I think they generally have no respect for women. Most of them were married, probably to their cousins from back home. Do you think they had much respect for their wives. I don't think this is a muslim issue at all. These men may have been from a muslim background but what they did was totally and utterly against any interpretation of islam. In fact, if sharia law was applied, they would probably be getting much worse punishments then what they actually got.

Is that so ajuba? Because normally the women are punished, from what I see of Sharia law...

There was a woman on Woman's Hour this morning who has written about this subject. She said that disdain for white girls is embedded in the Pakistani culture. People often chastise their daughters by saying "You look like a white girl" or "You're behaving like a white girl."
She said that she doubted whether the community/families of the convicted criminals are blaming the men concerned, but still maintaining that the girls were "nothing".

WilsonFrickett, I'm not interested in those so called islamic countries which incorectly apply sharia law. I'm referring to the quran and the sayings and practices of Prophet Muhammed.

Gramercy from my own experience, there is not disdain for white girls but Asian girls are often reminded that they can't have the same freedom as white girls so can't go out clubbing, drinking, have boyfriends like they do.
Its not disdain. Its a cultural difference.
I cannot believe that the men would not be blamed. Especially if they were married. They would not be able to blame the girls for sleeping with them.

Gramercy, I don't know who this woman was, but I'm from the Pakistani community and I think that's utter rubbish! she's implying we are all ignorant, stupid and racist with that comment that disdain for white girls is embedded in the community. I judge people as individuals. I don't lump them all together and label them just because they are white. Who the hell was this woman? and to speculate on what the families of the rapist think is also completely out of order. We don't know what they think, they haven't given any interviews to the media so what the hell is she basing her views on?

'On my local radio station yesterday there was a spokesperson for the Muslim community saying that everybody's priority now (apart from remembering that this was NOT a racial issue) should be the care of the offender's families who would be struggling to cope'

This would suggest that the white girls were seen as 'cheap' and 'easy meat' not just by these men, but by members of the community in general. Including their 'community leaders' whatever that phrase means Those poor girls - I cannot imagine how they must be feeling

I can just hear it - 'They asked for it by dressing/behaving a certain way and led these men on by hanging around street corners at night or whatever, they should have known better' Like it's always up to women to police the sexual behaviour of men

I do think it's worth remembering that recent surveys of the UK public as a whole showed that these kinds of views are disturbingly prevalent by people of all creeds and colours. To a certain extent, I do think that all the focus on the fact that these men were Pakistani is a bit of a red herring. There are men everywhere who see women as their property to be used and abused as they see fit.

i attended a safe guarding module at uni, several weeks ago about this subject...i was shocked as i had never heard of this before...

the lengths any man will do to illicit young girls into gaining sexual favours is disgusting...despite their colour or ethnicity ...it needs to be stamped out...

"'On my local radio station yesterday there was a spokesperson for the Muslim community saying that everybody's priority now (apart from remembering that this was NOT a racial issue) should be the care of the offender's families who would be struggling to cope'"

So not helping the poor girls who have been raped and passed around like a toy then?

How bloody depressing. I hope the offenders families are struggling to cope. It light spur them in to instilling some decent values in their children.

I think this might have happened to me.

the fall out being an inability to enjoy sex, sex has to be a form of abuse somehing that is done to me. The constant shame and guilt, the feeling of being dirty and used. Having the feeling that everyone knows, the ugliness.

the wanting to hide away and die, never being able to settle or confide in anyone for fear of them knowing. No relationship with family, no friends. I cant go out wearing anything remotely close fitting for fear of being seen as ugle and easy.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I would like to bring to your attention an exact mirror case that has happened in Oxford recently, where 6 Asian men were arrested for child prostitution.

story

So it's not just happening up north. It's happening in the South, and in Oxford of all places!

I'm Asian, and I am sickened. I blame the parents who come to this country boasting a rags to riches story and then completely forget to teach their children respect, values, shame. I believe that because things like this happen in the hush all too regularly in their home country, they think they can come here and do exactly the same thing without being caught.

I hope they all rot in hell.

I bet it's going on in every city in the UK

LittleWhiteMice, I am sorry to read that :( You do not need to be ashamed though, or feel guilty.

Ajuba - you're right, it is against Islam, but things like this are of a regular occurrence in Pakistan. None of these type of men live by Sharia Law - they are muslim only by name. Only recently has the Pakistani media started to stamp down on this filth with naming and shaming thanks to cable news channels. I know of girls who have been sent off to Dubai as sex slaves for months and months by their families and then come back thin to the bone with paltry amounts of money. No one thinks of religion when they commit crimes like this

well it sticks, feelings dont go.

im going to have to name change soon arent I. funny, no one else knows and today I wrote it.

LittleWhiteMice, I'm so sorry to hear that. Please know that it is not your fault - whatever happened to you was not your fault. Your feelings about what happened are normal and natural and to be expected. You will get lots of support on here, lots of sex abuse survivors post on here and will be able to identify with how you feel. Do you have any real life support? Have you ever had counselling/therapy?

LittleWhiteMice - I'm sorry for what happened to you :(.