To be infuriated with Keith Vaz on the grooming of girls by Asian men

[mumzy]

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

Popsy perhaps you might like to read this article and then tell me How the police and ss hadn't failed these girls www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9253250/Rochdale-grooming-trial-Police-accused-of-failing-to-investigate-paedophile-gang-for-fear-of-appearing-racist.html

ime ten years ago yes.

i can give examples if you really want.

in London there are plenty of Muslim girls who do hang around clubs and kebab shops, student gigs etc, not sure about up north, but i presume in manchester, birmingham etc it is the same.

these girls dont even realise the men were peadophiles till years later

i wouldnt say targetting specifically muslim girls actually, i would say targetting any girls they think they may beable to get away with, white, hindu, muslim, chinese, black

'so even if the same men are doing it elsewhere, it is not relevent to this thread.'

Yes.

And where is your evidence that the same men are abusing Muslim girls in London?

Mumzy, you do know that articles in the newspaper aren't 100% true don't you?

One cannot deny the fact that race is a factor. There are some in the Asian community who believe that white girls are cheap. However , by placing such emphasis on the race of these men, we have almost 'forgotten' the victims
I do agree with the poster who stated that.the focus should be on protecting looked after children.

there are Muslim girls from messed up Muslim families too.

I know Muslim girls who would help these guys as well. One was in prison for 3 years as she helped some men she knew rape a 15 year old girl. through calling the girl up, arranging to meet her, etc.

why? to gain cred with the guys who were doing the same thing to her, but she thought she had choice. She was living in a hostel. Her family lived 5 mins walk away.

There are liberal Muslim families who dont mind if their daughters go clubbing, live out at uni etc.

I have said on a previous thread, that when i used to wear mini skirts and go out, the Muslim girls would do the same, the only way you knew they were Muslim was from their names.

The Muslim community is more diverse then the orthodox Jewish community and incorporates people from differing backgrounds and ideaolgies.

From my Muslim school friends, all I know off have had love marriages in which they were in sexual relationships with the boys before marriage and they still had masssive weddings etc, it wasnt a hush hush cover it up job.

and London is not like up north, it is more anonymous, you can drive around with guys in a car or on the street and not be seen by anyone you know quite easily.

Yabu - this is not an Asian man thing it is a complete bastard thing. I am sure it would be offensive to imply the majority of Asian men are doing this. This isn't about race - even if these particular men are from a particular race.

when i was 18 it was so common it was normal. everyone knew. that was just a normal part of life. we thought that was what sex was about, and that the girls were just slags or attention seekers, and didnt even realise the boys were doing anything wrong.

Nailak. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said London is not like up north.

popsy. These girls were definitely let down by the authorities. I don't quite understand why you are arguing otherwise. The convictions speak for themselves.

Thebestisyettocome - That doesn't really make any sense. The convictions show that the authorities have done their job, otherwise they wouldn't have been convicted. If you read the article, it states that it was the CPS who decided not to prosecute, the police did their job. As for the 'being perceived as racist' comments, they were made by an ex-MP covering an area of Bradford. What has that got to do with GMP?

Popsy I think the newspaper article is a darn sight more reliable than what you're spouting.

How are the CPS not the authorities?
The CPS who would've taken advice/information from the Police decided not to prosecute some time prior to this trial. Had they taken a more robust (and correct) view, they could've prevented the abuse sooner.
As for ss, had they done their jobs properly the very least they could've done was to advise these girls the men in question were dangerous/not their boyfriends/were abusing them.

Okidoke. That's fine

thebestisyettocome - ok, I agree with you there. I'm more thinking about the Police to be honest.

I don't think this is a grinning matter popsy...

one more thing, if it happens to black/asian girls (muslim or non muslim) they refer to it as girls being coerced by gangs etc, not grooming.

it is the same thing in practice though, girls being driven round in cars, offered drink and drugs, passed around friends, etc

isnt the gang reference when there is a gang with a name that the men have an affinity to?

but in practical terms, what is the difference? one group of men has a name and convinces the girl it is a good idea to sleep with all 20 of them, and one group doesnt have a name and does exactly the same thing?

The girls are initially groomed by the men who use sweet talk and gifts to gain their trust. By the time they realise the men's true intentions they would have already been subjected to threats and violence. They are at this point totally controlled by the gangs and don't have a choice but to sleep with whoever they are told to. I agree with Nailak that girls of all nationalities and ethnicities are affected by grooming but in Northern towns and Cities the perpetrators are disproportionality men of Pakistani origin and the majority of victims are vunerable white girls.

nailak i agree, but one group call themselves a gang, and give it a name, like Mo Shootin or Manor House Crew, which the press obviously loves... the others dont have a name in hte same way.

but yes very little real difference