To be infuriated with Keith Vaz on the grooming of girls by Asian men

[mumzy]

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

Its not only in northern towns. It was going on in london 10 years ago and there is a huge operation in oxford at the moment.

Rumble not all of the girls involved are in care, or from 'broken homes' or from families where they are allowed to stay out and no-one cares though.

I think those of us in mainstream society are sometimes so busy worrying about racist attitudes among ourselves that we blind ourselves to the fact that some of our minority communities are deeply racist too. Many late night taxi drivers will see young women behaving badly and for some this may endorse their racist beliefs.
Add to this too many girls hanging around late night takeaways and you have a toxic mix. Of course the men should be sent to prison, but we need to tackle the two main problems. Racism in minority communities and lack of proper care of our vulnerable girls.

I was surprised when I heard the police come out adamantly that it wasn't a race issue, but thinking about it, I think it's correct- for practical reasons.

The behaviour of 'men who look like these men' are very much on the radar now; it may be comforting to think that crimes like this are only committed by 'men who look like these men', but would mean that other groups and individuals go unchallenged.

I'm extremely concerned at the lack of supervision of these girls; they were in 'care'

DD was not "vulnerable", well not until they got their claws into her
She never "hung out at night around takeaways"
She was not groomed by asian men
She was not allowed to stay out
She has a very close happy family
This was in Scotland.

If it could happen to us, it could happen to you. Do not be mistaken.

One very valid point that Vaz has made is that the case of these Pakistani abusers has now been extended into a broader generalisation about "Asian men" being disproportionately involved in grooming - something which is evident on this thread, and which suits the BNP's agenda down to the ground.

A couple of years ago I watched a programme which interviewed a middle class professional family whose 12 year old daughter had been groomed by older Asian men. Apparently she use to hang out with friends at the local shopping centre on Saturdays had become friendly with some older girls who introduce them to some Asian boys who in turn passed her and her friends to much older men. When the parents found out what was happening they involved the police and social services who apparently were relunctant to get involved due to the race issue. The parents then tried to ground her but got death threats and had their house sprayed with the words "slag" by the men grooming her. Eventually I think they had to move in order to escape the situation. So it shows it can happen to anyone and not just those from chaotic homes hence why it's important we tackle this problem now rather than letting it continue because we risk offending a community.

i heard pakistani groups getting pisssed off about the mens background being referred to as it some way implied all pakistani men. are all white men raping loons because of Fred West. How are we meant to refer to this group>

Keith Vaz and other deniers need to go and shadow www.rossendale.gov.uk/teamlancashire/downloads/Blackburn_with_Darwen_Case_Study_-_Engage.pdf

He would be in for a hell of a shock when he finds out what really goes on.

The stuff that this team deal with is numbing and harrowing.
I have been on training courses that they have put on and the group have just sat stunned at the stuff that is going on in our own area.

Community leaders from Asian backgrounds in the NW have hailed this a victory against crime. However it is not just males of an Asian background that do this crime.

There's a whole set of complex reasons why this happens (opportunity e.g. the point has been made young asian girls are less likely to be out and about) and I think it is naive to deny that there is no racism from the paedophiles towards their victims but maybe my view is skewed being a white woman living in a predominantly arabic part of London where being a white woman = being a prostitute to a fair few non-white men, purely based on their view of my colour.

What I find very puzzling is why the word paedophile is being so studiously avoided in all discussions/articles I hear/see on this. So a 59 year old man rapes a 13 year old but the term used is child sexual exploitation? And he is called an abuser?

What's the difference between a paeophile ring and what these people were doing? Am I missing something subtle/legal as to why this is not being reported as such? The word grooming is featuring heavily though?

I very much hope both the victims and the families and children of the pedophiles are getting support to heal.

As for Keith Vaz. Man is a colossal arsehole

He certainly is. How he got to be chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee is a complete mystery to me. If there really was no one better then our politics is in worse shape than I thought.

As for the grooming problem, it does seem that there is disproportionate involvement in it by groups of Muslim men, most often from a Pakistani background. At least part of the reason for that is likely to be cultural attitudes. Other groups have different patterns of offending (gang-based exploitation of women and girls in African-Carribbean communities, organised pimping in white communities, family-based child abuse in some more remote communities, whatever) Doesn't make their crimes worse than anyone else who does it, it does influence how we deal with it.

But once the problem has been idenitfied, we absolutely need to tell the truth about it. I find it so depressing that, in much of the discussion about this, child protection seems to be at the bottom of the agenda way after justice, community relations, political point-scoring. It says something very dispiriting about the value our society places on women.

Katie I'm so sorry.

Well, they are Muslim men, aren't they? If we absolutely have to use generalisations, surely it's better they are as specific as possible (if that makes sense?) rather than allow the BNP to make political capital by tarring men from an entire continent?

Katie Message received and understood. Thank you.

Hope everything is well with your daughter and family now.

How he got to be chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee is a complete mystery to me

I'm saying nothing.

Well I think pedophiles are usually attracted to pre pubescent children, children that look like children. The age of these girls suggests that they probably have hit puberty and are physical developed, so wouldn't be as attractive to true pedophiles. This age was probably targeted as they are easier to manipulate and control. It's just a horrible story.

Katie thank god your dd had you to look out for her and hope she on and the police have arrested the bastards responsible.

It's OK now helpyourself, she's fine, happy, doing well at school, has a lovely BF and is horrified at how easily she could have had her life ruined back then. Utterly ashamed of and disgusted by the groomers. She plans to go to Uni to study Social Work next year in order to try and help other girls. I'm very proud of my beautiful, bright, loving DD.

It was easily the worst period of our lives but it's over and we are all much older, wiser and happier now.

I think there is a deep mysogeny alive and well in some groups.

Not only the male takeaway workers, for whome the possesion of a sex opportunity they can share is a 'status symbol', but also within the police many of whome believe the girls are 'to blame'.

There is an ongoing case in the town where I live where one girls grandmother was followed and taunted through the town in the daytime. I know when these families go to the police complaining their children are being coerced and harboured they recieve very little help. These girls are being groomed with money, alcohol, heroin and cannabis - powerful tools!

I hope this case provokes discussion on how mysogeny is at the root of our betrayal of vulnerable girls.

I think there is a tendency for human beings to behave disgracefully towards people who are different. Racism/ tribalism is an issue in every group of human beings on the planet. What is socially acceptable in one culture is different to another culture. I think that white men are able to have sex before marriage more openly so don't resort to crime to get their nookie. Or they look for vunerable girls in different ways. Certainly there are plenty of white sex offenders.

I think its sad that the BNP have got involved and it made hard to discuss a difficult issue. To stamp out this abuse police need the cooperation of asian communities. The majority of asian men do not behave like thiis.