To be infuriated with Keith Vaz on the grooming of girls by Asian men

[mumzy]

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

thebestisyettocome Wed 09-May-12 14:21:19
Mrbojangles1. How much do you know about Islam? Taken at it's simplest form this case was about a group of men who wanted sex and thought they'd get away with raping some vulnerable girls. Had the girls been Muslim I really think these men would've at least thought twice. Actually, scrub that. I think they'd have left them alone.

I suggest you go to whitechapel or tower hamlets and talk to some of the muslim girls you find in the cafes, chicken shops, shisha bars over there, and you may find different. This most definitely happens to muslim girsl, hindu girls, morroccon girls, Bengali girls.

No-one rapes because they can't 'pull' - that's not what rape is at all. I wouldn't see any correlation between men of any race going out to clubs or whatever and men of any race deciding to rape.

nailak.
I think the situation is different in the North of England. There is a problem, now acknowledged, that in these towns, Muslim men have targeted white girls.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1457891-Am-i-over-reacting-by-feeling-unconfortable-about-this

There are a number of problems contributing to this terrible problem.
One, the vulnerable girls. These girls are actually children. Who is caring for them? That needs to be addressed. Social Services will say the children have human rights and they cannot act as jailers. Do they think that parents who make sure their teenage children are accounted for at all times are jailers? I really think that if a child is off the rails so to speak they should be housed in a secure unit for their own safety. Lala land? maybe so.
Two, the "asian" men. Yes they are men not boys or children. The crime they have committed is that of operating a paedophile ring. This needs to be addressed for what it is, not dressed up as men of a different culture behaving in an opportunistic way.
Three, judicial and social services. There needs to be more co operation between public services in general. Everyone even if they do not work for a government department knows this has been going on, but there seems to be no reporting procedure or method of dealing with the problem.
This situation is happening out there tonight in our communities, the police know, the foster carers know, but nothing can be done because the children have human rights.

btw these networks span geographical borders, or they did ten years ago. I knew many muslim boys in my mispent youth from up north, like keefly and derby and places like that.

Above is my experience with a taxi driver from 2 weeks ago. I didnt mention that hes Asian in the original thread cos i thought people might accuse me of being racist.
But i am fully aware of what its like to be treated as second class simply for being female as half my family is Italian and i was brought up as Catholic although i rejected that religion at 19. Im a 38 year old woman and although this driver took me by surprise i was able to deal with it. I know i should have told him to fuck off when he started asking me questions but i wasnt expecting it so he took me completely by surprise.

agree mantelpiece on the care system.

Also twats like Keith Vaz who is an opportunistic disgrace should shut up, surprised that George Galloway hasnt pontificated so far about hard done by Muslims.

There is a big problem here with mysogonist dressed up as race, culture and religion.

It's about time we addressed it because if we don't then people like vile Nick Griffin only get stronger

The police and ss action in this case has been appalling apparently they were eventually forced to take action by the school which one of the girls attended because they were so concerned about the number of Asian men picking her up and when she eventually became pregnant. She was 13 years old at the time. If the authorities can ignore crimes such as this for decades in the name of not upsetting certain communities you wonder what other else is being left to its own devices. Maybe if this affected the daughter of a prominent figure there would have been more of a hue and cry much earlier.

so many posts about the families of the girls, but what about the families of these men?

how did they bring them up?

why are 19 year old boys, who are most likely staying at home with parents allowed to be out all times of night and day doing these things?

and why didnt their parents bring them up to respect women?

I don't know the details of this case but were these guys pimping the girls for money?
If thats the case then they probably would have gone for white girls as the 'market' for white girls is probably more profitable. I know that sounds like a callous and awful thing to say.
White paedophiles and pimps do the same thing.
They are disgusting, nasty men and deserve everything they get.

So on the news its saying the Nick Griffin twittered brfore the case finished, insinuating that he knew the results before they were announced. Some of the lawyers are now muttering about a mis-trial. And one defendant (who can't be named - why?) refused to attend sentancing as the trial had been racist. Good lord!

maybe he cant be named to protect his wife and kids?

I don't know how Nick Griffin knew the result, but I do think the defence lawyer is taking the piss.

With the guy who can't be named, I imagine it's because he's about to be tried for something else and they don't want to prejudice the trial. (This happened in the Baby P case). The less likely possibility is that it's to protect a minor, but I'm not sure how that would apply, unless perhaps he was the father of one of the girls involved, which seems unlikely.

I am sure NG didn't know the results. He was probably just spouting to make himself look like the 'big man'.

or grandfather wasnt he 59 or something?

Creepy. I am pondering the concept of honour murder (its not 'killing'). If it was my grandpa, I'd supply the rope. Sadly, its usually the girls/women who get the 'sentence'.

nailak.
I'm sorry but this particular problem (so called fags for shags) between Muslim men and white girls has been common knowledge in certain Northern towns for years. I have no knowledge of Keighley and Derby so can't comment but denying it as a problem won't protect the next generation of girls from predatory men.
The reason why one man hasn't been named won't be to protect his family. Perhaps his name is in some way linked to a victim?

The men were out and about at night because they were all involved in night time jobs, namely taxi driving or fast-food shop workers.

i think you are misunderstanding me. I am not denying there is a problem.

I am saying that focusing on the north and white girls being effected, is ignoring the many asian and muslim girls effected, and ignoring the fact that these men travel to the south like london etc, meet up with their cousins/family/friends and do the same thing down south.

This has been common knowledge amongst some communities down south for years.

Maybe it is like you say, that the asian girls down south are more out going and do hang aroung kebab shops late at night, go clubbing etc, so while down south they are more accessible.

Of course culture plays a part.
Muslim (for example) communities tend to be fairly tight and news travels fast.
I think these child abusers focus on white British girls simply because they would be nervous of grooming girls of their own background:
They would be more afraid of the families of the abused girls coming after them, and of being shamed in their own communities.
Young impressionable girls from a different community are easier to target.

And it has been going on forever.
I grew up in an area that was about 40 % Pakistani/Bengali origin, maybe 10% Sikh, and the rest White British.
There was always hassle from older Asian men. I mean, there was hassle from white men too, but not on the same scale.

Perhaps nailak. I don't know about London and I don't want to ignore the plight of other girls whether they are white or Asian, but this thread is talking about a specific situation in a particular part of the country.

When my classmates were targeted by older asian men in the 80s it was usually one or two blokes who would also ask the girl they were seeing to bring for friend for his mate. Over the years it seems it has become more organised with a network of men from a particular community targetting young vunerable girls systematically for sexually abuse. The girls are pimped probably not for money but to boost the egos of the men and to increase their position within their own network as in "look at what I've bought to the party". When I watched the Dispatches programme on this subject 10 years ago the reporter noted as a lot of the men worked as taxi drivers they had the means of transporting the girls to other cities to be used by men there and also whisk them away if parents, the police or ss came looking for them.

"The police and ss action in this case has been appalling apparently they were eventually forced to take action by the school which one of the girls attended because they were so concerned about the number of Asian men picking her up and when she eventually became pregnant"

The key word in this is 'apparently'. I agree that this is heinous, but try making sure your facts are correct before you start slagging off the authorities.

thebestisyettocome Wed 09-May-12 18:41:49
Perhaps nailak. I don't know about London and I don't want to ignore the plight of other girls whether they are white or Asian, but this thread is talking about a specific situation in a particular part of the country.

so even if the same men are doing it elsewhere, it is not relevant to this thread?