To be infuriated with Keith Vaz on the grooming of girls by Asian men

[mumzy]

Just heard Keith Vaz on Today discussing this and being in total denial about the reality that in northern british cities and towns the street grooming of girls is disproportionatly done by Asian men and the majority of victims are white girls. His stance is it's the BNP making it out to be Asian men abusing white girls rather than accept the figues which show this crime is disproprtinately being committed by Asian men. Until those in positions ie police, social services, child protection stop being in denial this sort of thing will continue as these men will think no one will stop them.This has being going on for decades, I went to school in a northern city 20 years ago and knew of girls from chaotic backgrounds skipping classes to meet up with there much older and often married Asian boyfriends and often they'd be asked to bring a friend along for their mates. They'd be plied with alcohol and inevitably end up having sex some got pregnant. Is this a racist problem ? I think so and I speak as some one who is British but not white. There will always be people from every race who will think people of other races are inferior to them and will not flinch from abusing those who are not the same race as them. I also don't agree with the opinion of some such as Lee Jasper who say black people can't be racist I've had racist abuse during my lifetime from people who are white, black and other ethnicities. People like Keith Vaz who automatically blame the BNP do a lot of harm as it stops people discussing this publically in case they are seen as racist. This means in reality it doesn't get discussed rationally and openly so the abuse continues and the issue goes underground fuelling the support for extremist groups such as the BNP.

It's the opportunity to make racist judgements that has suddenly made a load of people take the problem seriously.
I'm not sure that's the case for everyone, but certainly we can assume it must be the case for members of the BNP, given their previous pronouncements on the issue of rape (including the gem that it's like force-feeding a woman chocolate cake). It is beyond disgusting that these girls have been exploited by grooming gangs. The BNP - which doesn't give a shit about rape - shouldn't be using them too.

"think you lack understanding, these men are westernised. They go clubbing, they go to squat parties and raves, they have just as much access to sex before marriage and practice it within relationships before marriage."

I do understand and I don't believe its so easy for them to go to a nightclub and pull like white men do. Prehaps there is an element of shyness because of upbringing and they feel more confident to seduce a young teen. Lets face many white people will only enter a night club if they have had a few drinks first.

These particular men are two faced and they live in two different cultures. They want to be good muslim boy, but want to enjoy pre martial sex without upsetting granny/ mummy. To make matters worse they aren't supposed to drink or take drugs. The idealised good muslim boy does not go to nightclubs, but goes to mosque on Friday night.

Different cultures have a different moral compass because of different religous beliefs and upbringing. For example many countries do not consider thirteen year old girls to be children.

No, mumzy most children in the 'looked after' system are there because their families cannot look after them safely to the extent that they have suffered or at singnificant risk of serious harm!
Care workers and foster parents are not jailers!
Children need communities that are safe due to our policing Reports need to be acted upon more vigourusly!
Most of the people in these cases work at night and abuse by day!

Unfortunately your attitude aids anyone who wishes to abuse by blaming the girls, their carers and their families. If they are labeled 'bad girls' you are playing into the hands of abusers!

reallytired this is not about a group of men who find it hard to get 'nookie' and so resort to crime to get it. I find that comment appalling, as someone who's family has been affected by this.

This is about power, control, abuse and fear. Not 'nookie'

I don't think this has anything to do with good muslim boys feeling a bit under the kosh at home and wanting to have pre marital sex.

These men aren't working in groups to groom girls as young as 13 with drugs and alcohol and then passing them round like a sex toy because they are too shy to go to a nightclub!!

Sex crimes are usually little to do with sex and far more to do with control.

If their race/ethnicity is relevant and we are going to debate it as such, then it think it is probably more important to consider what messages they are receiving about 'white girls' and their attitudes towards them, than it is that we try to understand what is so 'wrong' with Islam that they have no choice but to behave in this way. Because that isn't helpful.

I am not completely convinced it's an entirely Muslim thing.

I know in India they have a huge problem with sexual harrassment, it's known as 'eve teasing'. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16503338

OTOH, I don't know if they have the same perception of Western women/girls as sexually available, prostitutes in essence, an attitude I've witnessed in multiple Muslim countries.

My comment was to reallytired

What is so frustrating about this subject is how long it has been going on for. The MP Ann Cryer has been highlighting it for 20 years. I saw a dispatches programme about it 10 years ago. I saw it happen in the 80s with my classmates and my dd will soon be at an age when she could be targeted. Now we have to worry about Muslim extremists but back then there weren't a problem so what is making our politicians sit on their hands and do nothing and condemn another generation to this type of abuse?

"I do understand and I don't believe its so easy for them to go to a nightclub and pull like white men do. Prehaps there is an element of shyness because of upbringing and they feel more confident to seduce a young teen. Lets face many white people will only enter a night club if they have had a few drinks first."

So much wrong with this I don't know where to start.
I don't think that men and boys with brown skin find it harder to pull than men and boys with white skin or men and boys with black skin. What a strange statement.

Also grooming, plying with alcohol and drugs, rape does not = seduction. Although far too many men in the UK seem to thing it does, from what I can see.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos

Oh my, I can't believe you just posted that, why don't you nip over to feminism for a bit of education, in fact just go back to school full stop.

should I mention catholic priests and alleged vows of chastity? is this the time or the place?
If we live in a multi cultural society but we do not have sufficient glue between communities i.e. no real understanding of one another or respect for that matter, these crimes/behaviours become a symptom of that.
Not sure if that is a poorly thought through argument but does anyone see where I am going with this. Drowning not waving.
If it stems from social problems, is that problem rooted in ethnic/race divides or the failure of systems to protect the vulnerable.

I seems that racism trumps misogyny at every turn. Let girls and women suffer, as longt as we can't possibly be accused of being racist it's all ok, we can just bury our heads in the sand.

I was very angry that Keith Vaz brought up the BNP, which, as John Humphreys (it was he, wasn't it?) seemed to be designed to stifle discussion.

WHO CARES WHAT THE BNP SAY? Why should the BNP have control of discourse around these important issues?

"I do understand and I don't believe its so easy for them to go to a nightclub and pull like white men do. Prehaps there is an element of shyness because of upbringing and they feel more confident to seduce a young teen. Lets face many white people will only enter a night club if they have had a few drinks first.

Clearly you haven't see people going into nightclubs round Blackburn, Oldham, Bolton, Rochdale etc!

shyness yeah righ!!

Micawber WTAF?

Clearly you haven't see people going into nightclubs round Blackburn, Oldham, Bolton, Rochdale etc!
I meant the number of Asian males going into clubs! No shyness there.

For years I have been hassled by Asian male taxi drivers ( Do you have a husband love? Does he make love to you) Yes I've reported stuff time and time again over the years.

Asian males hang round the streets around Blackburn College and drive up and down in their BM's 'cruising' Girls have reported that they feel unsafe after comments are thrown at them (sexy girl, come in my car and when they refuse abuse is hurled at them)
This was happening 23 years ago when I was at college and much to my distress it still is (My niece and her friends have been subject to it)
When challenged the guys are ' waiting to give their mates a lift home'

Saying that I work for Lancashire County Council which employs hundreds of Asian Males and the ones in my department are brilliant. (although one talks far too much!)

lolaflores I believe mrs m is referring to ken Clarke meeting her majesty at the state opening of parliament today, and his past comments about stranger rape being 'proper' rape compared to knowing the rapist

Or something along those lines

These poor young women and girls have been horrifically abused by an organised group of men, and now their stories are being abused by the BNP for their own ends.

It absolutely sickens me.

Certain ethnic minorities present bigger problems. The Vietnamese more than the Chinese, for instance, from what I understand.

The Pakistanis have quite a few:

oppressed women not allowed contact with the outside world, cannot speak English
cousin marriage (should be outlawed) causing sky-high birth defects www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394119/Its-time-confront-taboo-First-cousin-marriages-Muslim-communities-putting-hundreds-children-risk.html
grooming
drug abuse/dealing (nearly all the local dealers are Pakistani, despite being a minority)

This has been a huge issue in Northern towns for decades. It's often referred to as 'fags for shags'

My own friend fell pregnent to a kebab shop worker just as I was going to university. I felt awful that our lives were diverting in such a dramatic way

Imo the authorities have been afraid to address it through fear of inciting race riots. It took the courage and cunning of a Muslim prosecutor to take the step to institute proceedings against these men.