Am I being unreasonable telling my 17yr old daughter not to date a boy who was once a girl?

[Worcsmumoftwo]

My 17 year old has been seeing her first boyfriend, he is 23, and has confided in her that he was born a girl, she has sworn me and her best friend to secrecy but wants to make a go of things - I am really not comfortable with the situation and even asked her if maybe she felt she was gay and that was fine, but she denies this - advice please.

Do any of you lot know a transexual?

I do.

Yes, quite a few actually

Good for you, mate.

A quick google confirms that even at this young age it is posible to have undergone transgender procedures. I am surprised but glad people do not have to wait for decades to have the treatment they need

Not all transgendered people actually undergo the surgery. My cousin is twenty three and has said he (F > M) will not be having any surgery on his genitals as it basically renders the nether regions useless, and he'd rather have something that works but feels a bit weird than a floppy bit of skin that does nothing at all. So for those who are saying that he's probably lying about his age or his situation, it may just be that he's decided to leave things as they are. My cousin is now only waiting for breast removal surgery, he's had all the therapy and the hormones and stuff and is a man on paper, he just doesn't want a penis that won't be of any use to him.

And can everyone stop with the fecking "quote mark" bullshit. The OP's daughter's partner is a man. He's not a "man". Not anymore than I am a "woman" or we are all "mothers" or "fathers". It's fecking narrowminded and just plain rude.

OP, it must be strange to find yourself in a situation that differs from the norm. I don't really think you need to worry though. People who have struggled with gender issues, or any kind of issues, are often able to be more sympathetic to the needs of others who have had issues of their own. If your daughter is happy with this man then I would just let her enjoy her new romance. Of course, if he hurts her then you can judge him all you like, but by his behaviour, not what's in his pants.

See I still havent seen one mother of a teenage dd saying she would be happy about this relationship whether on grounds of age or gender.I certainly wouldnt have been although I would have had no objection to dd having a platonic relationship with someone confused about his/her gender.17 is far too young to cope with the psychological difficulties of someone going through gender change as a potential boy/girlfriend.

FormSquare yup!

I think seventeen 'these days' is pretty different to seventeen twenty or thirty years ago. I am twenty three myself so it's not that long since I was seventeen and I had no problem getting my head around my cousin's change from female to male (which I actually first found out about at fourteen). Nor did I have any issues, at eighteen, with the fact that my boyfriend at the time liked to wear women's clothes and was (is!) bisexual. Either I'm just reaaaally open minded or times have changed.

My boys are still young (2.10yo and 9mo) but I'd like to think that I wouldn't really care who they dated as long as they're happy, when they're older. Age is just a number. Gender is just some chromosomes. Does any of it really matter, as long as they're happy and they treat each other well?

I suppose you can pretend that life is like a fridge magnet if you like, but I imagine seeing your daughter go through hospitalisation for anorexia makes you a bit more circumspect. Frankly, I'd prefer her to be concentrating in her mates and her schoolwork, not dealing with all this heavy shit, but hey ho.

Sorry, Commander, I thought you were the one being ignorant, my apologies. Shame on the quotation mark users instead! I am related to an intersex FtoM TS and know a post-op MtoF TS also.

PS Gender is not some chromosomes, gender is a socio-cultural construct. Sex is chromosomes and even then, it's so much more complicated and muddled than most people would believe.

Wow, she's met someone who is honest with her - at 17 that's pretty rare as it happens. Yes they are BOTH sensitive and need careful guarding but you've got to let her make her own mistakes and as I understand it at least he won't get her pregnant.

thegreylady this young man is not 'confused about his gender'. Sounds like he knows exactly which gender he is.

I am one of the ones using quotation marks. That is because as a feminist I don't actually think it is possible to change sex - male and female are biological realities.

And I think a fairly sorted 17 year old is very very different from a 17 year old who has recently had major issues with anorexia. This bf might be fine, but I do understand the Op's concerns.

EatsBrain very naice for you to think that. Unfortunately your theory is completely wrong. I could introduce you to an 8 year old who could make that very clear. And several adults too - pre-op, post-op and not going to have an op. Seems to me you struggle to get to grips with the difference between sex and gender.

YABU. It must be a nightmare to be born in the incorrect body, he has obviously been through a lot, which is not his fault.

Main thing about whether he's "suitable" to date your DD is the same as with anyone else. If he's a nice, kind, considerate person then it's fine :)

I don't believe any ideology should over-rule politeness - I realise it happens of course but frankly, it's bloody arrogant.

I sympathise with the OP's feelings of uncertainty and concern. I suspect that when your child has suffered from a life threatening illness and been hospitalised, any relationship would be alarming. Let alone one which IS more complex than most. Op - does your dd have regular follow up for her eating disorder? Might that be an arena where she can deal with anything that troubles her about this relationship - if anything does now or in the future.

An ex boyfriend of mine had an op to become a woman (after we'd split), which did freak me out at the time tbh, purely because it was difficult to get my head round adjusting to them not being the person I thought I'd gone out with IYSWIM.

If the transexuals themselves admit to struggling sometimes with confusion over WTF is going on, you can't think negatively of the other people they know also taking time to sort things out in their heads.

Gender can sometimes affect how people interact with each other and is an important part of a persons identity, if it wasn't, transexuals wouldn't have any desire to be 'something else' would they?

EatsBrains It's definitely possible to change. Growing up my cousin was definitely female, on the outside. Now he has a beard and a squeaky, pubescent voice (he gets to go through puberty twice thanks to his hormone therapy). He's definitely not female anymore.

Re: the OP's daughter's anorexia - perhaps this boy is in an ideal position to help her with any feelings she may have about herself? He will obviously understand how it feels to be uncomfortable in your own body, to want to change it, will probably have suffered with body image issues and depression himself - maybe they can help each other? And surely having somebody who loves and respects her (as I'm assuming this boy does, as the OP hasn't mentioned any concerns beyond his gender change) can only serve to boost her self confidence?

Op I can understand your concerns. In your situation it would be the age gap that would concern me, not the fact the he was born a she.

Having said that, I dated guys far older than me when I was younger.

If he is a genuinely nice, kind guy and makes your dd happy, surely that's all that matters? We all want our kids to be happy.

I'm another one who thinks that if you forbid her to see him (or anyone) she will dig her heels in and that could come between you. You obviously love and care for your dd otherwise you wouldn't give a fig who she's seeing.

Mouse - The majority of children diagnosed with gender dysphoria i.e. thinking they are in the wrong body, do not become transexuals as adults.

It is true you can alter some parts of your body so you can appear the opposite sex, removing breasts, breast augmentation, hormones injected, etc. But lots of things remain the same or can not be changed. Prostrate, wombs and ovaries, clitorises, chromosomes, etc.

Sex is the biological reality of a male or female body, gender is what society says is a feminine or masculine way of acting.

Don't get me wrong, it must be very hard to think you have been born in the wrong body. I just don't think it is biologically possible to change your sex.

Eatsbrains: he, she, him, her, etc., are genderised and genderising forms of language. They refer to the socialised gender of a person, not the sex between their legs, therefore it IS wrong and offensive to put quotations marks around those words. But even if you were right (and you're not), it's just common courtesy towards transsexual, transgendered and intersex people to use their chosen gender prefixes.

Oxford - I see personal pronouns - he, she as about sex, so we disagree there. I don't know if you know but lots of intersex people really object to being lumped together with transexuals or transgender people, there is a significant difference between these groups of people. And some intersex peopel actually want a third sex of intersex recognised.

When talking to an individual transexual I would use their preferred pronoun, even though I think it is a lie. I can be polite.

Regardless of our personal feelings, it is polite to call people what they want to be called. Without inverted commas.

And those of us who live in the real world - as opposed to some sort of idealised rainbow land- would obviously be concerned if our 17 year old daughter was going out with a man who was a) 6 years older and b) had once been a girl. It is frankly ridiculous to say that this is exactly the same as any other boy/girl relationship. It does no one any favours to sweep problems under the carpet.

but it is not that dissimilar to any other relationship, in that it's unknown territory and the person could be wildly fucked-up or very nice. i don't get how being born in the right gender makes you unlikely to have issues. if anything, someone who has done the amount of thinking they have will likely be more evolved than the average 23 year old lunkhead.