to have asked these people to sit somewhere else?

[musicposy]

I honestly don't know if I was or not, so any opinions welcomed, and I will suck it up if I was

I work for a music examining board and we are at the time when I have to collate all the exam entries. It's part time, seasonal work, but when it comes in, it is hours of work to a very tight deadline.

I took the DDs up ice skating this morning. The really needed not to miss it as DD2 has a couple of competitions coming up. But I really needed to work. So I sat in the leisure centre coffee shop with a coffee at a big table, spread out all my paperwork and got on with it. It was pretty early morning so the place was virtually deserted, masses of empty tables and just a handful of other people there.

Halfway through some complicated adding up (it's literally thousands of numbers) a lady came and sat at my table, opposite me. I thought it was strange because mine was one of the only occupied tables and most people choose a vacant one. She kept making sniffing and sighing noises. Under normal circumstances I might have smiled or asked if she was OK, but I was trying to get this work done.

After a while she got up, got a drink of water, sat down, shuffled some of my papers over and put the drink down. She started the noises again, trying to get my attention, I think, and I did start to think at this point that she might have some sort of special needs, though you wouldn't have known looking at her. I just completely lost concentration in my adding.

About 5 minutes later a man who obviously had Downs Syndrome came over with a coffee on a tray. He said a cheery hello to me and proceeded to also sit down, putting the tray on my paperwork.

At this point I said very nicely "I'm really sorry, but would it be OK if you sat at a different table? I am really very busy."

They looked terribly hurt and got up. A lady a few tables over I then noticed was obviously looking after a whole group of people with learning difficulties. She said "sit here, you're welcome at this table, " and glared at me like you wouldn't believe. Then she sat and shot me looks for the next half hour.

I felt rotten afterwards. I know that in a different cicumstance that could be me or a family member. I really hadn't meant to upset them. But on the other hand, I was at one of the only occupied tables, I asked very nicely, and I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect to be left in peace when the place was so quiet.

So, was I being unreasonable? Did I deserve the glares?

I don't think YABU at all. Yes, you could have moved yourself, you could have put your work away and resigned yourself to a late night marking, but ultimately you did nothing wrong. Don't beat yourself up about it.

But wouldn't moving tables have been just as upsetting, if not more so, fuckwittery - not to mention being just as open to misinterpretation and subsequent catsbumface-ness?

I'm afraid I would have just sucked it up and been inwardly annoyed to prevent just such a situation happening. And subsequent worrying about who was in the right or wrong etc etc.

And then subsequent posting on AIBU, keeping up with thread, posting replies in defence etc etc probably caused more disruption to your work than a couple of people sitting at the same table as you did, surely?

What this thread highlights for me ( I know it alredy ) is that its is very ,very hard to "get it right" be you parent / carer / person with a disability ( hidden or obvious) or "just jo(anne) bloggs".

The "right" thing is different for each person and situation according to one's own defintions / perception / mood /circumstance / expectations / curtural "norms" and social setting as well as others defintions / perception / mood /circumstance / expectations / curtural "norms".

Taking any sN /LD out of the equation there are still differences as to what the socially "proper " is in the setting in public areas.

I am well aware of the real nastiness / abuse and rudeness exhibited towards people with disabilities.. but sadly I think it is a reflection of society in general as its not just people with LD / SN / physical differences that experience this ... its any person doing or saying anythng the "abuser" does not agree with.

I think there is a big difference between this and just not being sure what it the "right " thing to do because sometimes its dependant more on the other peoples perceptions than your actual action.

I have worked for many years with people who have LD and more often CB as well. Part of this is accompanying people into socal places like a pub, cafe, swimming pool etc. I have to be aware that, Like some of the mums here have mentioned, that certain actions can, and do, impact on other people present in a public place. It is indeed very hard to judge what peoples reaction can be if approached by someone totally aware of any "social norms" and just how much one should "allow" to happen so that the interaction is positive for both parties.

I do agree with what others have said ... most of the people I work with are trying to make connections with others and are used to staff / carers / parents who make this a positive experience and therefore see no difference in approaching "strangers" to initiate a connection. Realising that not everyone likes this is kinda hard !

Also hard is judging at what level someones right to express themselves is infringing someone elses "right" to enjoy a public space.

One thing for sure ... no "right" answer ( unless laws being broken of course and even then its sometimes debatable )

I think
It was reasonable for the op to spread her papers out to work
Reasonable for the two people to sit with her
Reasonable for them to make space for their drinks
Reasonable for her to ask if they minded sitting somewhere else
Reasonable if they'd declined to move
Reasonable if shed moved somewhere else
Reasonable for the carer to think she might have been rude
Reasonable for her to wonder if she had been

I cant see that anyone got anything 'wrong' here. Sometimes no- one has.

Ds2has autism, and quoting the film snowcake, is therefore unreasonable 'it's the same thing', by most people's standards, often

He's doing his best, so am I when I say 'I want to stop talking to you now for 10 minutes, then we'll talk again' and increasingly I find I'm just as direct with people with no special needs too, I've just got used to enjoying saying what I want without therefore judging the ( opposite) thing that they want. I find I have a nicer time in the world than I used to.

wow post that is perfectly put.

justaboutisnowakiwi you either misread what I wrote or are deliberately taking offense. I have been in enough social situations with people with support needs to know that sometimes people (general public) are overly nice and worried about offending. I also am aware of the other side of living with a disability; the hate crime, the abuse and do not claim that folk have an easy time in the community if they have a disability.

Post I think you are right except I do think the carer who was presumably employed (paid) to help people access the community appropriately should have stepped in. There were plenty of other places to sit where there wasn't someone who was obviously working using the space.

Post that is very interesting.

I think NT people with no experience of people with autism might find that hard to grasp.

I am reminded of sitting on a flight next to a man with autism (he told me) - I guess he was fairly highly functioning. By the end of the conversation he was coming on pretty strong, inviting me out for a drink and asking for my number.

I was doing all the "normal" social cues, like 'Oh I'm not sure what I'm doing' and 'My mobile doesn't work in this country' and so forth. He kept on and I was getting a bit distressed by it. Finally he 'clicked' and I think he must have 'remembered' that someone being evasive meant 'not interested'.

I felt terrible as he immediately shut up completely. But equally, no way could I ever bring myself to say 'I am not interested in you and will not give you my number'. All my social training has told me that that is hurtful and rude.

YANBU

I only clocked on as I have sat in the same cafe waiting for my kids swimming (dh was with them), and witnessed the same group of people I suspect you came across. Again, it was really empty, as it was very late on a weekday, yet they all sat down around all the tables surrounding mine, "fencing me in" at my corner table, lol.

The only reason I even pondered this was that it was such a large group, that they had only two carers with them, and that I thought it odd that they chose to sit right next to me, when there were nicer and more cosy areas in the cafe to chose from. Many of them were eating, and the two carers seemed pretty rushed off their feet.

quint - you probably have a nice aura about you :) & attract company!

Quint, If you are talking about the spectrum I defy anyone to find a nice part of that cafe.

And I have been joined by a group sitting at the tables near the free form section of the pool - the place my son likes to sit to watch the swimming. My DD and I chatted with them for a bit. One of the boys had a thing for the colour blue and my DD was wearing a blue dress so he kept touching. She didn't care. She is used to it.
How funny. Small world

pag!

You are right about that. The best part is looking at the cakes in Costa. They are somewhat mis-labelled. It confuses me when a Lemon Poppy seed muffin is called rasberry and white chocolate summat, and they tell me they dont do lemon poppy seed.

I can't get past the terrible service. I am the woman on the balcony trying to decide if the pool is unusually hot or am I having a menopausal flush whilst wondering if they will ever get my bloody order right and at least warm on the same night....

The joys in my life are numerous

It is horrible. And they never clean the tables.

The pool always feels very hot if you sit on the balcony. It is, however, quite nice if you've been in a freezing ice rink since the ungodliest hours of the morning!

Yesterday morning I was in Costa yet again, this time with DD2 (she's not allowed on the rink as early as DD1 - they have all these faintly ridiculous rules regarding levels). The table had half a sandwich under it and was knee deep in crumbs. This was first thing, so obviously hadn't been swept since closing.

The staff are always lovely though. (I spend way too much money there and they know it )

But yes, I've seen the same group before and they always seem to be massively understaffed. I could only see one carer on the morning of tablegate.

I don't know if this has steady been raised, but my work as an examiner and moderator is confidential and it would be a breach of my contract if I did the work in a public place such as the one you describe.

I thought marking for public exams is not allowed in public places...If I go to an examiners' conference I cannot mark on the train back. If they had special needs, they might just have been trying to be friendly.

I've already discussed it's not marking t0lk13n and not confidential information. I realise it's a long thread, but this part was resolved!

YANBU.
I would have just said 'go away', but I am rude

blimey i wouldnt a=want anyone sat at my table if i wasnt working I went to have a quiet coffee this am whilst dd was at dancing,I have been up since 4.30 with annoying baby so i was looking forward to readibn my paper and drinking my coffee.Id have been devastated if someone had sat at my table