to have asked these people to sit somewhere else?

[musicposy]

I honestly don't know if I was or not, so any opinions welcomed, and I will suck it up if I was

I work for a music examining board and we are at the time when I have to collate all the exam entries. It's part time, seasonal work, but when it comes in, it is hours of work to a very tight deadline.

I took the DDs up ice skating this morning. The really needed not to miss it as DD2 has a couple of competitions coming up. But I really needed to work. So I sat in the leisure centre coffee shop with a coffee at a big table, spread out all my paperwork and got on with it. It was pretty early morning so the place was virtually deserted, masses of empty tables and just a handful of other people there.

Halfway through some complicated adding up (it's literally thousands of numbers) a lady came and sat at my table, opposite me. I thought it was strange because mine was one of the only occupied tables and most people choose a vacant one. She kept making sniffing and sighing noises. Under normal circumstances I might have smiled or asked if she was OK, but I was trying to get this work done.

After a while she got up, got a drink of water, sat down, shuffled some of my papers over and put the drink down. She started the noises again, trying to get my attention, I think, and I did start to think at this point that she might have some sort of special needs, though you wouldn't have known looking at her. I just completely lost concentration in my adding.

About 5 minutes later a man who obviously had Downs Syndrome came over with a coffee on a tray. He said a cheery hello to me and proceeded to also sit down, putting the tray on my paperwork.

At this point I said very nicely "I'm really sorry, but would it be OK if you sat at a different table? I am really very busy."

They looked terribly hurt and got up. A lady a few tables over I then noticed was obviously looking after a whole group of people with learning difficulties. She said "sit here, you're welcome at this table, " and glared at me like you wouldn't believe. Then she sat and shot me looks for the next half hour.

I felt rotten afterwards. I know that in a different cicumstance that could be me or a family member. I really hadn't meant to upset them. But on the other hand, I was at one of the only occupied tables, I asked very nicely, and I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect to be left in peace when the place was so quiet.

So, was I being unreasonable? Did I deserve the glares?

Lucyellensmum - the OP had to stay at the icerink because she was with her dds, so was trying to multitask - and usually the cafe is practically empty at that time of day, so I don't think she was being unreasonable to hope to be able to get some work done (even though it turned out that the distractions were too much and she had to redo the work later). Of course, it would be unreasonable to expect to monopolise a table with work/documents/whatever if the cafe was busy.

Not unreasonable in the HOPE to get her work done but as i said, cafes are not libraries.

eh everlong - just telling another story to highlight that maybe the lad wanted to sit at THAT table, but not doing it very well - sorry. The incident that i had was very different, i tried to make the mum feel better and it was all very polite, i just felt she would rather i have shut up

lucyellensmumnamechange - hello again! Can't fool me this time!

I get you but would you have chosen to sit with someone working on their laptop when there were plenty of empty tables?

Would you have found it strange in any situation if someone sat on your table when there were plenty of empty ones around?

This is what we mean by social norms. Yes people do need to have patience when dealing with adults with LD and yes a little understanding goes a long way, but we've all been stressed and perhaps not thought things through as completely as we should have. The OP felt terrible about asking them to move, in hindsight she says she would have acted differently. I think we can all sympathise with that.

However there was absolutely no need for the carer to act the way she did and upon balance, the carer did not do the job that she was supposed to do. She had the ideal opportunity to teach those adults about social situations and she didn't. In fact she did the opposite. If was one of their parents I would be properly miffed about that.

Wouldn't moving have hurt their feelings as much, if not more?

rhubarb

Everlong - totally agree that is what she should have done

yeah, maybe SDT - awkward all round, still think that it is a bit hit and miss whether you will et work done in public areas though

Having read all this I just find it kind of sad that people don't take a few minutes to actually interact with others. It all has to be on their terms, people are so busy being important and considering themselves that they are possibly missing out on something good.

Irregardless of special needs, sometimes a random conversation or interaction can bring pleasure. Being a tiny bit considerate in a public place could possibly make someone feel a wee bit better but if everyone is too wrapped up in their own 'important things to do' then the chances are reduced.

I've lived in quite a few countries and England seems peculiar in this respect, I do find it hard to understand why it's so hard to take a few minutes to be sociable and polite.

It does seem a huge fuss. OP had a virtually empty cafe so she decided to get on with her work. This is now seen as antisocial because people homed in on her rather than one of the many other table that were completely free! This isn't peculiarly English. I always go into cafes when abroad and the convention is to sit at a free table. She politely told them she was busy and now she is accused of being selfish-she should be bringing pleasure to others!
I would love to see the reaction if I did it to others in a cafe and told them I was 'making them feel better'!

Agree with exoticfruits

yy exoticfruits.

Agreed.

Getting up and leaving would have been just as offensive and no doubt received as many strong responses if she had posted on Mumsnet that course of action.

You can't do right for doing wrong.

I'm not saying she should be bringing pleasure to others, my point was that very often unexpected interaction can bring pleasure.

The whole 'must have personal space' thing is IMO quite a British thing.

Sorry, cut off my last sentence:

Is it really that hard to pass a few moments chatting with people in a public area? Surely no one is that important or busy?

Saintlyjimjams. You're son is a fine looking young man

Op I saw this during the night whilst feeding ds, I didn't have any advice and tbh have wandered back in to see how much of a kicking you have been given. I think you have answered this thread in the best way, you have listened and reflected and accepted what others have said. Good on you

Your

I'm sure she was happy for a quick word but that isn't what they were doing.

If I was brave enough I would try out redcarnations idea that other nationalities would be thrilled to be joined by me in an empty cafe.

Yes, it is hard to be bothered by someone you don't know. Why should people have to interact with someone else when there is plenty of space to be left alone? The thing I really fucking can't abide is NT adults who consider themselves 'friendly' and come up and get in your face and start conversations. (A lot of the time they are trying to flog you something like their god, I suppose). And then if you give one word answers and turn away they start muttering about how unfriendly you are.

If you want to talk to a stranger at a cafe, sit at a nearby table and call across (not shout) to them. Ask them for the sugar or something, make small talk about the weather, let them reply but FFS leave their person space alone until you are invited to join them.

This does not apply to massively crowded cafe's where you just need a place to park your bum and are forced to share a table.

Exotic are you deliberately twisting my words?

I have experienced cafe culture in other countries and did find it a lot more sociable. But I suspect no matter what I say you will try and put your own spin on it so I'll bow out.

You have no idea about the circumstances of the other person. I can imagine someone being labelled miserable and antisocial and they may have a family member with terminal illness etc. The adults with SN had a carer with them, it is the carers job to guide them-in this case towards an empty table.

I just doubt very much whether you would be welcome at the one occupied table in a cafe in any country.