To be surprised at the amount of women that still seem to be subservient to men?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

This isn't a thread about a thread, it's a thread about general observations I've made, both on here and in RL.

We are meant to be living in an age of equality. Yet on here there seem to be so many replies on threads about men saying things like 'Awwww men don't understand housework' and 'Bless them, men need their blokes weekends away' and 'I don't think men see mess'. On threads for example about men not pulling their weight in the house, replies will say things like 'if he works long hours YABU' without even considering that the woman might work too.

I'm just surprised that some women do still seem to have the attitude that men can and should do what they like and that it's ok for women to pick up the slack. It's not the ideal thing to teach to the next generation is it?

I actually do know a man who left his wife for not doing the housework...but he is an utter cuntbag obviously, so no loss on her part.

I'm a SAHP so do most of the housework/cooking during the week. However when he is at home he does his fair share. He always does the dishwasher/tidys the kitchen in the evening. As I have cooked he thinks it's only fair. At the weekend he cooks/tidys etc just as much as me.

Mind you he came form a very traditional family where his mum did everything for him. When I pointed out what a twit he was being towards his mum he changed his behaviour. I wouldn't have married him otherwise.

What I find infuriating is the complete hypocrisy. Generally we are expected to believe the two following things AT THE SAME TIME...

It's easy to look after children and do all the housework, "I can pop a wash on", "run a hoover around", it's no work at all, la la la. It's easy.

AND

Poor men need to rest, they can't be expected to do childcare and housework, poor things they need to rest, they need hobbies, they need time to themselves, they need to fuck hookers go to strip clubs and let their hair down.

Um, either childcare and housework is easy in which case, they can do half or more in my house or it is hard in which case women shouldn't be expected to do it 24/7 with no breaks.

I don't think it matters who does what it the house really, as long as one person isn't made to feel like a skivvy or taken advantage of by the other person and both are happy about it. We used to be 50/50 with things as we both worked full time including childcare. Now I only work a few hours a week (for myself, so is also flexible), one daughter is in school full time and the other is at nursery for 2.5 days and has half a day with granny.

As I am at home and have at least 15 hours by myself each week it seems only fair that I now do the lion's share of the housework, rather than DH who spends 3 hours commuting a day, leaves the house at 8 and gets home at 8 most days 5 days a week. He does help out at the weekend though and we both get one lie-in each and doesn't go off playing golf all day or anything like that. In fact I am the one who has more hobbies, and go away for the weekend with my friends more, and I am forever reminding him he can go away with his mates if he wants to!

But I agree with the premise of the thread. At the moment (as it's cheaper!) I just run by myself but I used to go running with a women's running club at the weekend, and one or two of them used to say things like "Who has your children then?" I'd say "DH of course". And they'd say things like "Ooh, you've got him well trained!"

YANBU. I amazed at how much some blokes seem to get away with. I've no doubt that for lots of women who post on here that it has been a slow slippery slope with the man just doing less and less and her picking up the slack until she realises that she's doing everything and he's doing fuck all and then complaining when he's asked to do a little light dusting or pick his dirty pants up off the floor.

DP and I pretty much share the housework 50/50. Whilst sometimes he doesn't do things to my standard I don't think it is that he doesn't 'see' mess, he just has a higher tolerance level to it than I do. If I'm working away he will quite happily let the dirty pots pile up for 2 or 3 days in the kitchen before he loads the dishwasher. And he might actually be right that I'm a bit anal about how the towels are folded. But he does it how I like it to be done and I ignore the dirty pots when I come home as I know he will do it that evening.

But I do - and did say on your thread Cailin - that I do think it's odd that you don't do your DH's washing. But that's only because we both muck in. I'd be seriously annoyed if DP put on a load of washing and didn't include my stuff that was in the basket. To me that would be a bit like him cooking his own meal and leaving me to sort my own. But each to their own.

For us it depends on the situation and it could sometimes be perceived by an outsider that one or the other is being subservient. For example i will happily pick up his laundry and he will happily do the shopping and cooking. i will happily let him make decisions on things which i don't have a strong opinion on and vice versa - we tend to have similar views on things.

However woe betide if one of us steps over the line as we are both quite stubborn!

Interestingly, i refused to pick up my ex dh washing so that explains a lot.

I don't think the OP meant that if you wash one plate, he has to wash the other. It's more about the "oh poor silly men, you can't expect them to..."

So a man can be a CEO of a massive multinational, otherwise perfectly well functioning human, and can figure out all kinds of things, but not how to use a toilet brush after himself? Remember his mum's birthday? Figure out that kids might need clean clothes and a lunchbox? No, sorry, I don't quite buy it.

I don't mind if someone says "I wouldn't do that" wrt the fact that I don't do DH's washing. What I found bizarre is that I was told I was neglecting my DS (where on earth they got that I have no idea), that my DH would more than likely leave me, that I was mean and petty. Some posters even wrote out little scenarios where they envisioned me telling DS I wouldn't play with him and that he had to watch tv. Why the fuck they thought I make my DS watch tv just because I don't do my DH's laundry is way beyond me.

Basically the tone of the thread was that I absolutely should be doing my DH's laundry, regardless of whether he would do mine or not and that if I don't do it I'm a failure as a wife and mother. It was such an odd thread.

yanbu but i have to admit i do most of the housework as he does it no too well and only after nagging. but he cooks better than i do and he likes to look after 7 mth old son so i feel lucky

so what is supposed to happen then? if we all start competing with our partners domestically and professionally?

what happens in the running of a house when 'wife' gets fed up with husband not scurrying around all the time cleaning and so on as she THINKS she is supposed to do

surely, if we really thought about it, we all have different definitions of what constitutes domestic input

so - if i do laundry, sort house stuff, kids stuff, cook for kids and myself

• he gets home after long day, heats up his dinner in microwave) then if he starts again on further work in the evening...i pretty much see that as equal as my evenings are free, i have free time slots throughout the day to do as i please whereas he has professional work commitments to keep on top of

plus what is the other option?

Both of us working, house and kids lives 'maybe' dont run as smoothly and everyone ends up stressed and more tired - things get lost, house gets untidy more as no one is around to do little bits every day?

if i was the main wage earner, and roles were reversed, the running of our home would still be a partnership

PLUS, with us at least, it works simply because we both accept that having a happy sometimes untidy lived in home is more important than living in a showhouse and fighting about tiny things like who does what etc

life is busy enough without picking fights with your partner over domestics

if you want to tidy, then go ahead

if you dont want to, then dont.

do it when you are feeling up to it.

dont nag each other. esp in front of your kids (grew up with a depressed mother who tidied non stop and fought over such silly issues as washing dishes so i have years of conditioning on what matters and what doesnt)

rambling...sorry...

CailinDana, I get that sort of shit about not skivvying after my DH, like it somehow automatically means I'd neglect my DS. I point out that it means the precise opposite; by not doing loads of housework, I get to spend loads more time with him and lavish him with attention

but i refuse to iron his shirts.

just

cant

do

it

Good Grief Mrs TP, you really have a very poor opinion of men don't you. Luckily I have had lovely relationships with men and have been very happily married for a very long time and have yet to encounter any of the type of men you seem familair with.

That's what I don't get Oxford - surely the fact that I am doing less housework means I'm less likely to neglect my DS, not more.

Have another look, I think you'll find lots of men who are subservient to their partners.

Are there ever any truly 50/50 relationships surely someone will often be more dominant than the other?

No battleship I actually have a very high opinion of men, particularly my DH. I was actually referring to women who speak on here about men in this vein. Look on the lap dancing thread. There are some there. I think men are as capable as women and, devalued as much by this kind of sexism as women are.

I think the housework thing is a red herring. The original question was why women offer ridiculous excuses for men behaving badly. And I couldn't agree more. I never cease to be amazed by how many men and women in relationships don't even realies that they've slipped into these stereotypical roles where the women runs around after the man and does what he wants. So the man who genuinely doesn't notice if his partner doesn't clean is different to the one who expects the place to be sparkling when he gets in but won't lift a finger to help.

I see it in finances, cleaning, decision making and lots of other things. And sometimes, even just in attitudes expressed by those men when you speak with them.

Bling a good example of what you mean is the way some women (but not the majority) are sticking up for the OPs DH on the Thailand thread. A lot of them cant see the hypocrisy and double standards. Shocking and sad.

I've been avoiding that thread. Now will have to go look at it.

Everyone sees mess. However some people genuinely have lower standards of how they want to live. What confuses me is how woman end up with men who have such different standards to themselves if it is going to cause years of heartache and feeling unappreciated. Nobody should be subservient but it happens because people don't consider and arrange expectations around living together. If I want something done because it is bothering me, I will do it. If something bothers DH but not me, he can do it. It is not one partner's fault that the other partner is bothered by more/smaller things.

And a lot of people don't read the OP properly.

As I've mentioned already in this thread, my DH does see mess, and he creates a heck of a lot of mess. He also will do anything to avoid doing things for the DCs, for example if he puts 3 year old DS to bed, he will literally stick him in bed; no teeth cleaning, bath, face and hands wash, nothing. He will sit there glued to the TV, sitting and sitting there to avoid helping DD2 with homework or putting her to bed. He will suddenly realise that he has something 'urgent' to do when we have just finished tea, to avoid clearing up.

The difference though, between some others and I, is that I don't make excuses for him. My mum says things like 'Awwww bless him, men don't have a clue about what children need doing for them', whilst I won't accept or make pathetic excuses like that. DH doesn't do these things because he is lazy in the house and can't be bothered, not because he is a 'man'.

I also loathe it when people say things like 'Is your DH babysitting tonight'. Erm no, he's looking after his children.

I think it's really important that we don't blame women here. They may be making excuses or justifying their dps' behaviour, but that could be their way of coping with a shitty situation.

It's the wankerish men who are the problem.

I think some women have to take some responsibility for some things. My ex-MiL turned ExD into a twunt.

Yes I agree there is the issue of how boys are brought up to view women.