To be surprised at the amount of women that still seem to be subservient to men?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

This isn't a thread about a thread, it's a thread about general observations I've made, both on here and in RL.

We are meant to be living in an age of equality. Yet on here there seem to be so many replies on threads about men saying things like 'Awwww men don't understand housework' and 'Bless them, men need their blokes weekends away' and 'I don't think men see mess'. On threads for example about men not pulling their weight in the house, replies will say things like 'if he works long hours YABU' without even considering that the woman might work too.

I'm just surprised that some women do still seem to have the attitude that men can and should do what they like and that it's ok for women to pick up the slack. It's not the ideal thing to teach to the next generation is it?

To be fair, I think almost every single couple struggles at some point with sorting out how to run the house. As long as both partners respect each other and try to meet each other half way then all is well. The problem arises when one partner expects the house to be clean and tidy but has no intention of actually doing any cleaning or tidying.

I think you're right overall, but I also agree with Ormirian that there is another issue, where one partner is just more tidy-minded than the other and that takes a time to work through.

I also think (from observation) that women overall are far more fastidious about hygiene than men are, IMO its evolutionary.

BTW I do disagree with a "don't wash your partners clothes" policy, I prefer the "doesn't get washed if it ain't in the basket" policy.

YANBU

And, I think your friends husband doesn't like you because you're a strong independant women who might influence his wife and rock his cosy little world.

Just beware Hex, being part of the club is tantamount to wearing "slattern" tatooed across your forehead .

I've always supected that living with a subservient wife might actually be quite boring. I think I might end up doing the washing and cleaning just to break up the dullness of it all.

Tis why I don't want one full time ever again. As SGB said it will take centuries still but we will get there eventually.

CailinDana, I think I remember that thread and I am almost as relieved as you probably are to see all the non-washers coming out of the woodwork on this thread. There were millions of people flobbling their jowls like Harold Bishop over it and I felt rather intimidated. The ones I wanted to argue with but didn't dare were saying, "but if you are putting your own on, it is stupid and petty to leave his out as it is no extra trouble". I felt feeble and inadequate because all that running up and down stairs and shaking out and hanging out did seem like a lot of trouble to me (my baby was smaller then) and I would often re-wear the same clothes many times to save washing because I felt just too shattered to do a single thing more. DP throws what I consider to be barely worn clothes aside with gay abandon so it really would make a difference.

Anyway. OP, YANBU, but I think we are living in times of real cognitive dissonance between what we think should happen and what actually does. We do not live in an equal society. But it is the one that everyone is used to.

Just reading a blog through a blog link up which says:

"God built within women the deep desire to be cared for and treasured by men but especially by their husbands. Likewise God designed men to long for the respect of women, especially their wives. We find ourselves feeling the most fulfilled when we are operating within the roles God has given us because they compliment the desires He has gifted us with."

"It?s time to stand up. It?s time to throw off the feministic mindset that says men lack value. It?s time to show proper respect and love to the men in our lives!"

stayathomedaughter.com

Maybe it is an American movement?

Hmm, I'm another one who doesn't wash my DH's clothes.. it never occurred to me and I don't think its ever occurred to him.

We both have a little hamper on our side of the bed, and we both just go about our normal clothes washing routines that we had when we were single (each load is always full).

I do most of the cleaning, because I like the house a certain way, and he's absolutely happy living in a tip (not dirt, but cluttered/untidy), and had always lived that way before I moved in.

He does most of the cooking because I've always lived off ready meals and basic food (like apple & cheese with a boiled egg), and would happily never cook.

He doesn't bat an eyelid if I don't clean for a while for some reason (eg. first few weeks of pregnancy - ugh!), and will revert to his very basic level of cleaning, and I don't mind if he's too tired to cook (and will stick some chips in the oven for both of us).

It seems to all work out pretty well. :)

Just want to say, for clarity, that now my baby is bigger and I can do a few extra things with my arms each day without feeling like I want to lie down and cry, the things that immediately come to mind do not include another adult's personal laundry

Vezzie I really had a good laugh at "flobbling their jowls like Harold Bishop" - classic!

I know it pissed me off too when people tried to claim that adding a whole extra person's washing to your load doesn't make any difference - of course it does FFS! And the amount of times I was told it was inefficient and a waste of water etc, despite me saying again and again that only full loads are ever put on. I really wonder how people like that think single people possibly manage to wash anything!

craziemazie That blog has to be one of the most vomit-inducing I have ever seen. Only in America.........

grimbletart Scary isn't it!! I found it through raisinghomemakers.com/2012/homemaking-link-up-74/

all the craziness is fascinating! I can't believe people live like that.

Stay At Home Daughter movement anyone!

YANBU, my DP was telling my that his collegues wifes do all the housework, have dinner ready when they come home, do their washing and ironing and make their lunches to take to work I think he was telling me this in the vague hope that i would start doing this, after i laughed in his face for a few mins i explained that i am not his fucking mother. Really pissed me off that his collegeues were shocked that i didnt do any of this for him and probably think im a lazy evil cow who doesnt look after her man .. its 2012 for FFS!

As my DH always says: "Blokes only do what they get away with." I always say: 'Nice try, but not good enough. You are an adult you do your fair share'! And no I do not like or am better at cleaning and childcare than you are.

Unfortunately for him I wasn't raised to be a good housewife (thanks mum) and the older I get and the more I look around me, the more I realise I'm quite a feminist. I'm forever pointing out to my DH how unequal things still are and he agrees but it is an eye-opener for him. Luckily he doesn't want his DDs to grow up subserviant.

I'm forever educating my SIL and MIL as well, don't think they like it but hey ho. And yes, too many women are still conditioned to be subservant and put themselves in very (financially) vulnerable and dependent positions in life. And it is encouraged everywhere, media, familymembers and society.

Whenever I go off on one of my rants to women that they shouldn't take this crap, I usually get looked at like I'm a hysterical madwoman. Sad.

I get told how 'lucky' I am by one of my friends to have a DP that helps around the house !

Its not luck!! We wouldn't have lasted long as a couple when we first moved in together if he thought I was some kind of maid.

He does have moments though, hints like your DP Rosie about his colleagues etc, I just say 'Oh thats nice for them...'

Seen a fab notice in a shop once

"Sorry you must be confusing me with the maid we don't have"

'As my DH always says: "Blokes only do what they get away with." '

So it's women's job to help and support them into being less useless? Don't think so! Men who think like this needs to knock the excuses on the head and take some responsibility

OP YANBU, DH and I have been married almost a year, together a lot longer and living together for almost 6 years. His mum did everything for him, and if she wasnt around his sisters did.

His family and friends are horrified when they see him doing the washing up, or making them a cup of tea when they visit. You'd think I was a slave driver! If we make mention of him hoovering or dusting you can see his Mum having palpitations.

The only things I insist on him leaving well enough alone are the laundry (he is colour blind, so that says it all really!) and cleaning the bathroom as I ahve monica from Friends standards high standards and I hate the way he does it.

I don't agree that every couple struggles with finding a housework balance. DH and I share things pretty much 50:50 based on what we prefer. So he does all the cooking, I do most of the cleaning. We both put on loads of washing - we base the loads on lights, dark colours etc. wouldn't occur to either of us to only do our own washing. I do small items of ironing eg T shirts etc DH does the shirts, jeans etc.

I can't remember a single conversation about housework. We're both adults so do what is required. Probably helps that we have similar (low) standards.

I agree Lotta that is why I give him the answer that I did. You shouldn't forget though that men are also raised in this society to think that they can get away with this. They are just as conditioned as we are and that isn't necessarily their fault. As long as they are happy to be educated otherwise!

I don't wash DP's clothes either.

He once made some whiney comment about me using non-biological liquid - I swiftly stopped doing his washing.

He's a grown man, he can sort it out himself.

YANBU

Drives me nuts.

Absolutely no subservience in my house I can assure you! Equality all the way.

Cannot bear it when people say about my dh 'he is very good isn't he?' because he does his share of housework (well he does more than me but I work out of the home FT).

Good point about social conditioning BobMarley. Really important to raise the roof about this stuff every time we come across it - will change people's minds very slowly

Cailin, I've never washed my Dh's clothes, nor ironed them, put them away, whatever. He has arms, he can use them. I might take themoff the clothes horse (after he put them there) and plonk them on his side of the bed, to which he'll be pathetically grateful and tell me I didn't have to go to the trouble

I am a SAHM (and am disabled via health issues which does affect the balance of how much I can do) and he works over 40 hrs a week and he does about 60% of all housework and when at home, he is keen to be with our lovely DS, and not just the fun stuff either. He says that my job is to be the best mum I can be and that job is more important than his money-earning role and the housework, so he wants to support me in that job as much as possible.

I once had an ex who would say that he couldn't see what housework needed doing but would get annoyed when I didn't pick up the slack. I once snapped 'do you think my ovaries are special drudgery lasers?'. We didn't last long.

The long and the short of it is, if you put up with it, let a partner get away with it, be a martyr, suffer in silence, roll your eyes and mutter passive-aggressively as you do the crap work, say it's easier to just do it yourself, joke about men being useless and all the rest of it, then you will be treated like a skivvy and more fool you. Sorry, am feeling feisty today.

PS We've never struggled with finding a balance. I'm nobody's skivvy, he'd feel ashamed to not pull his weight, end of story. Easy, no drama.