To be surprised at the amount of women that still seem to be subservient to men?

[HexagonalQueenOfTheSummer]

This isn't a thread about a thread, it's a thread about general observations I've made, both on here and in RL.

We are meant to be living in an age of equality. Yet on here there seem to be so many replies on threads about men saying things like 'Awwww men don't understand housework' and 'Bless them, men need their blokes weekends away' and 'I don't think men see mess'. On threads for example about men not pulling their weight in the house, replies will say things like 'if he works long hours YABU' without even considering that the woman might work too.

I'm just surprised that some women do still seem to have the attitude that men can and should do what they like and that it's ok for women to pick up the slack. It's not the ideal thing to teach to the next generation is it?

Anyone see the recent "poo thread" about DHs spending a fortnight pooing and leaving a mess? I couldn't believe some of the ladies who cleaned it up!

That is nuts. Why would you clean up another (capable, non special needs) adult's toilet mess?!

I've never done my DH's washing. Not as any kind of statement but because it's never occurred to me to do so

OP YANBU. I think I've seen a couple of comments on relationships threads about how it should be easy to guess a possibly cheating DH's phone unlocking code as men aren't very bright All this "bless them, aren't they useless" shite is really annoying.

My husband spends hours in the loo too but thank god does clean up after himself. if he didn't, I would divorce him.

I do have to admit Cailindana that I was very few clothes of DH's, as he doesn't put them in the laundry bin. I've just put a wash on now and it had one top of DH's in as every other item of clothing he has is in a heap next to the bed and no way am I wading through that. Can I be in your gang?

I'm happy to support all of you who don't want to do your OH's washing, any arrangement that works is good. But personally I don't see the point if the machine needs to run anyhow.

Well it depends on what works for you as a couple isnt it!!

DH and I both work about the same hours, I do most of the housework, 90% I would say, it doesnt bother me in the slightest. My DS has a physical job but will always help out if need be........he does all the maintenance round the house, keeps it really nicely maintained etc etc and he does clean up his own toilet mess, lol. He is good with school runs etc etc but yes, I do most of the household chores.

Works for us, others might think it's strange but hey, horses for courses!

It basically never occurred to me either Geriatric. To me, laundry is a matter of personal hygiene, it's not a job that one adult does for another unless the adult is physically unable to do it. When I first moved in with DH and we were both working full time my mother said I was "very hard on DH" for not doing the washing. I asked her why and she couldn't explain it. My mother has worked full time for 35 years while my father has been unemployed for most of that time. In all that time he has never once done a load of laundry

I wish someone could explain to me why women who know it's not on for their partners to be lazy gits, still put up with it.

Because that seems even stranger than women who have been brainwashed or tricked themselves into thinking it's normal for men to be like this.

YANBU

But I guess it is easier to tell yourself that "men don't see mess" or "don't know what to do with babies" than admit to yourself that you have married a selfish arsehole.

My DH does his own as he likes to fuss about with stain removers etc and has shirts etc. I grab a bunch of similar coloured clothes and bung them in. If a pair of boxers end up on there fine.

" He just doesn't care,"

Precisely. He sees it and doesn't CARE! And you know what? I am not sure that that isn't the right attitude. Assuming that you aren't living in filth and unbridled chaos, and people are being fed and keeping clean i think that maybe 'his' attitude is correct.

Who says there is a certain way that things have to be? I think part of the battle is letting things go a little bit. I have done this to a certain extent. The house isn't as spotless as I'd like it to be if I'm honest. But I don't do 90% of all the work anymore. It's a compromise.

It doesn't help that men are seen as 'helping' around the house, expect praise for doing what women are 'ecpected' to do.
It has never occurred to me that this is right and normal, nor DH.

It's not really about who does which task, necessarily, and it's not unreasonable, if one partner is the SAHP for that partner to do more domestic work. Like someone said upthread, the way to check for fairness is to check that each person gets the same amount of leisure time. So the WOHP needs to do enough household work when s/he gets home from paid work, to enable both partners to sit down in front of the telly/go to the pub/get out the chessboard at the same time in the evening. Being the WOHP doesn't mean you get to work a 40-hour week for pay and do nothing at home while expecting the SAHP to be on duty 24/7 in exchange for food and shelter.

To be fair, I think almost every single couple struggles at some point with sorting out how to run the house. As long as both partners respect each other and try to meet each other half way then all is well. The problem arises when one partner expects the house to be clean and tidy but has no intention of actually doing any cleaning or tidying. It always shocks me when I read of SAHMs whose partners come home and comment on the state of the house while doing absolutely nothing themselves. That is disgusting behaviour.

I agree there's no need for a house to be spotless. But IMO every adult should do basic things like putting plates in the dishwasher, throwing out wrappers when something is finished, emptying the bin when it needs it, putting clothes in the laundry basket and just general tidying. That's just normal adult behaviour and isn't too much to expect from anyone.

OrmIrian's right about that - it really doesn't matter if the house is a bit of a mess, this idea that everything's got to look like a show home and if not, it's the woman's moral failing is more to do with wasting women's time (so they don't Get Ideas) than what is actually needed to live in comfort. SO I have sympathy with the man who'd rather the whole family went to the park than spent the afternoon wiping the skirting boards - however, I have no sympathy with the man who does fuck all himself and yet complains his wife is 'lazy' if the house isn't utterly spotless.

Solid - that is so right!!! My DH would much rather be out and about with DS and I - he is so not bothered about whether I dust/polish or whatever, he would def rather have the quality time. However, it bothered me so I get on and do it.

I am not subserviant at all, I go out a lot, am a very strong independent person and the way we live worked perfectly for us.

YANBU

I've never understood the need to be in a relationship with a man who wants his wife to run around after him, and baby him. It's supposed to be a partnership ffs, not taking on another child.

My dh does whatever is necessary around the house, and has 'kicked into touch' a couple of his relatives who questioned his doing a womans job - and tactfully too, as I don't have a diplomatic bone in my body

I agree. It's totally natural for people to have different standards, and I think it's fair that the person with the higher standards sort of take ownership for that.

For example my DH usually wants a proper hot meal at night so he does more of the cooking (I could survive on cheese and crackers ). He does not care in the slightest, however, if there are giant dust bunnies under the bed, so that's my purview.

The problem is when people impose their standards above the minimum level on other people.

I am not understanding why this thread is a debate on how people clean their homes.

Doing the cleaning doesn't make you subservient if it's your choice!

*sub·ser·vi·ent (sb-sûrv-nt)
adj.

1. Subordinate in capacity or function.
2. Obsequious; servile.
3. Useful as a means or an instrument; serving to promote an end.*

The OP has made some good non cleaning related points about roles in partnerships!

It's also not a man bashing thread everlong.

My DH is a lazy fucker in general when it comes to housework, however unlike some mumsnet posters I refuse to just allow it or accept it and put it down to him being a man. He will moan if things aren't clean and tidy yet 90% of the mess and dirt is caused by him. He will look at a pile of ironing and say 'Hmmm, I want to get all that ironing done and out of the way by tonight', but what he actually means is 'Hex, you need to do that ironing today'. So my response to his statement is something like 'Yes, that's fine, feel free to get stuck into the ironing anytime you choose, and whilst you're at it DD2's school dresses need ironing too, they're on the clothes horse. Want me to get them for you?'

Join the "non-washers of partner's clothes" club Hex, you know you want to!

Oooh good answer!

How many more years before you think it sinks in, you reckon?

I think I jolly well will join CailinDana ! It sounds good fun!

ooooh Dreaming, not too much longer I hope, he drives me mad at times!