...to think all the good men against sexual violence should make a big noise!

[Berts]

I know this probably isn't entirely fair, and loads of people will now come on and cheer my heart with all their examples of men campaigning against rape and sexual violence, but it really does seem like an issue dominated by women and female-led organisations.

AIBU to ask all those good men (and I know you're out there) who are horrified by sexual violence and the awful treatment of victims in our society to join in the debates, the arguments, the discussions? It's not a 'women's issue'!

Us girls may 'hold up half the sky', but we can't do without you, the other half. Sexual violence distorts the whole of society and fucks up the natural dynamic between men and women. So condemn it wherever you see it reported! Get on Twitter and slag off Connor Brown! Campaign for better sentencing and the busting of rape myths! Stand up with us!

a lot of women are busy actively living with the reality of sexual violence compos, of course there is a 'dual standard' or has the severity and extent of male violence to women passed you by somehow?

Of course not and it goes without saying that males are victims of sexual violence too. I think you misunderstand my argument, I agree wholeheartedly that attempts to tackle sexual violence are laudable and as a member of Amnesty International I have done my fair share of lobbying and letter writing, but the argument expressed by the original poster that by not logging onto Connor Brown's website to write SCUM or some equally meaningless gesture I am tacitly approving of sexual violence. Which I am not.

If I thought leaving a pile of expletives on a mouth breathing footballer's twitter feed would keep a single woman safe from sexual violence, I would happily do it now.

Most people don't make much noise about things that don't affect them or close ones directly. Most men reading those comments might think that's terrible but they won't jump in and start arguing/insulting (as the op suggested).

This doesn't just apply to men though do the people on this thread really fight every bit of injustice they see? I doubt it.

ComposHat - you made the point I was thinking about too that 99.99% of women don't actively do anything or speak out publicly so why should men be compelled to? Most women on MN don't campaign on this issue and most of their menfolk don't either.

Pan - I don't disagree with what you are saying. I can and do influence my sons on these issues very directly. They know where I stand, they know what I expect of them, they see how I interact with women, my attitude to women and how I talk about women.

I think we have to work a lot harder with boys and teenage lads because that is where attitudes can be changed and moulded. That is where the 'campaign' shoudl be. Older men frankly will not change of their own volition now or because I tell them to change - the law is there to curb their behaviour.

I suspect we are being a bit particualr about the interpretation of 'slagging off' in the OP. I assume it means an exhortation to log on twitter and explain in non-sweary but 'forceful' language what an unreconstituted bigot he is, and why all in 140 characters or less. Quite the challenge.

and I wouldn't take it too personally ComposHat.

MB - agree totally about the young bucks being targetted. But just being a good role model at home is just the start surely? It's the basic entry level in being a decent bloke.

and oddly older blokes do take notice - it depends on how you deliver the protest, ime.

Most people don't make much noise about things that don't affect them or close ones directly

but I bet it does affect at least one of everyones loved ones...

I have been raped, my sister has been raped, 3 of my close friends have been raped, 3 of my close friends (a different 3) and I have been in abusive relationships

just read "women don't actively speak out, why should men?". Gosh that's pretty disappointing to read.

ahem...i should add, none of us are 'tramps'

develops Actual Horn for Pan

haha...horn.....pan....geddit?

no?

bejeezus I am sorry for what happened to you, but you can't use personal experience as a basis for the experience of an entire population. Also a lot of people don't always tell people.

very droll.

I was only putting my experiences to demonstrate in personal terms how prevelant it is. You can look at the cold hard statistics, which tally with my personal story, if you prefer

Trying to bring statistics to life

Also a lot of people don't always tell people

and...exactly

Yes Pan I am probably being a bit prickly about it. Apologies.

I brought up my sons to respect and value everyone, and themselves ,I brought up my daughters to respect and value everyone, and themselves.

This isn't about gender or sex it's about humans valuing other humans.

what i think: i think men advertising to men is the best way to reduce rape rates.

i think men telling men not to wolf-whistle, grope, assault, or date-rape women is the best way to influence them.

what i don't think: this has to generally done by everyone, just that this is the best way to change public opinion in general, and reach the position where society in general does not tacitly or otherwise approve any form of sexual harassment.

You see how it's happening on this thread. Everyone is agreeing with Pan and congratulating him and he even gets apologies. I didn't see any female poster being treated with that degree of deference. So if more men spoke up in that way imagine how much good it could do. When women speak out it's taken for granted.

Sorry that there are people out there who thought it was ok to do that to you and your sister and your friends, bejeezus. (Trying to resist the normal phrase "what happened to you" as it removes the perpetrator like it's a natural phenomenon or something.) :(

Elephants as it goes, I was apologising generally if I can across as a bit prickly, Pan rightly gave me a nudge that it was how I was coming across.

The reason Pan is getting praise is not to do with his gender, but because he is offering a well reasoned and thought provoking an argument for his actions.

Blimey elephants you're right. I didn't even notice that. I don't know whether to feel slighted or vindicated.

Right, pan this is the last bit of special thanks you're getting from me for stating the obvious. So thanks

And thanks elephant for pointing it out.

Oh for christ's sake at people saying this is not a gender issue.
Do you really think that hundreds of men would be lining up to call it's a male rape victim a slut, claim that he was lying even though his rapist is 1 of the very few who has actually been convicted, claiming he only complained for money, and threatening to rape him again, while boasting that they had raped other men?
Men don't do this stuff to other men. They do it to women. It is absolutely a gender issue.

and of course pan is getting special praise because he is a man. the women posters saying the same thing are not being singled out for praise. we are always so pathetically grateful, when men talk about us as though we are human beings. thank you pan

maybe he laid it out in a more logical and rational way Basil?

Basil that is a fair point but there are a whole different set of taboos around reporting male rape or sexual assault and that the suggestion that the victim must have 'done something to deserve it' admittedly not in the same visceral and misogynistic language.

the suggestion that the victim must have 'done something to deserve it'

do you think that applies only to male rape?????