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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think all the good men against sexual violence should make a big noise!

289 replies

Berts · 23/04/2012 14:34

I know this probably isn't entirely fair, and loads of people will now come on and cheer my heart with all their examples of men campaigning against rape and sexual violence, but it really does seem like an issue dominated by women and female-led organisations.

AIBU to ask all those good men (and I know you're out there) who are horrified by sexual violence and the awful treatment of victims in our society to join in the debates, the arguments, the discussions? It's not a 'women's issue'!

Us girls may 'hold up half the sky', but we can't do without you, the other half. Sexual violence distorts the whole of society and fucks up the natural dynamic between men and women. So condemn it wherever you see it reported! Get on Twitter and slag off Connor Brown! Campaign for better sentencing and the busting of rape myths! Stand up with us!

OP posts:
Pan · 25/04/2012 20:08

Have commenced a thread in Dadsnet, fwiw.

MoreBeta · 26/04/2012 07:41

Would anyone object to this thread being moved to Dadsnet and merged with the one that Pan posted?

The thread is about men speaking out so maybe it should be where it might garner a few more male responses.

Pan - I wasn't having a go at you by the way. I actually agree with much of what you have said.

AyeRobot · 26/04/2012 08:09

MB, I would be more interested in a thread on the same topic that was started on a predominantly male-frequented forum, tbh.

What can men do? I think one of the biggest changes would come from standing up to stag do/lads holiday/night out peer pressure without resorting to excuses about her indoors not allowing it. Instead of caving in and bolstering the notion that the exploitation of women is something that "real men" do, call them on their crap whenever you come across it. Don't tolerate the abuse of women by actually not tolerating it. (my new fave phrase - thanks Thistledew).

bejeezus · 26/04/2012 09:33

MB I have reported you to SS for your keeping of Lance in the shed

MoreBeta · 26/04/2012 10:12

AyeRobot - "... standing up to stag do/lads holiday/night out peer pressure". I agree with that.

Hate the whole idea of strip/lapdancing/poledancing clubs and never been in one. Walked out of a few private City dinners where it happened too. I feel strongly about it and had a few barbed comments from two different bosses about my stance. Don't care.

Other colleagues knew my stance by what I did. A few colleagues actively agreed with me and walked away too. Most just go along with it. I don't feel the need to shout about if from the rooftops though or get a pat on the back for being a decent human being.

I really feel that if millions of men in their private and public life walked the walk on these issues and talked to and influenced all their younger male children and relatives it would do a lot more good than wearing a white ribbon or putting a few posts on blogs or a few quid in a collection tin. Nothing wrong with those things but in my view we have to have older men work on young male attitudes to make a real difference.

Its not a 'big noise' we need. Its millions of quiet conversations over years.

bejeezus - I have a white horse in there too. Grin

FrothyDragon · 26/04/2012 13:35

But those millions of quiet conversations mount up.

But I wouldn't object to men making a big noise, too... Wink Believe it or not, I'm not shouting all the time. It's not one or another.

Pan · 26/04/2012 17:28

MB - sorry for my interpretation re your post - it just seemed fairly timely and specific, so I happily apologise to you. I think your actions at City dinners is the sort of thing that would get noticed because you are a man, and esp. if you stated why you are leaving. If a woman were to be doing the same thing I suspect it would be much much easier to undermine her actions.

Over in DN I'm suggesting we have a good think about the small AND big ways we as men can make our repugnance to sexual violence known and effective.

FrothyDragon · 26/04/2012 17:45

Exactly, Pan.

Original poster
Berts · 26/04/2012 18:36

Pan, that's a great idea, really glad it's been posted by a man in a man's forum, it might get more measured response.

Me, a laydee, posting seems to have led to all sorts of assumptions that I'm accusing 'all men' of something, or I'm saying that any man who doesn't explicitly condemn sexual violence is implicitly condoning it, or other things I never even thought, never mind said.

And MoreBeta - I know you aren't looking for praise, but what you have done re company 'entertainment' is incredibly ballsy and is, in fact, a 'big noise'! Actions like yours will change the world, piece by piece.

OP posts:
bejeezus · 26/04/2012 19:08

can someone post a link to the dadsnet thread please?

AyeRobot · 26/04/2012 19:23

Agree MB and your stance is exactly what is needed, I think. Great that some men make big noises (I like the anti-porn men website, for eg) but walking the walk (along with literally putting money where the mouth is in terms of charity donations to Womens Aid and Rape Crisis) is where it's at.

Just have our backs, that's all we're asking really. It can be a lonely and hostile world out there when making small stands against the culture of hyper-masculinity and the effect on women, let alone when having to deal with the violence itself and the aftermath.

CoffeeAhorlicksAnonymous · 26/04/2012 20:08

As a survivor of a violent rape aged 12, I would like to thank Pan and MoreBeta

Probably sounds daft but you've helped me.

Pan · 26/04/2012 21:22

Well that's pretty impressive to read coffee, and thanks for taking the time to post and pointing it out. Appreciated.

bejeezus - I've forgotten how to do linkies! I had suggested that women posters don't post there ( at least for a while) - if the thread is going to mean anything then we chaps need to kick around some ideas on a sort of 'slow burn' basis, and may be see it as our responsibility. IYSWIM.

Original poster
Berts · 26/04/2012 23:13

See guys, you've already made a change in the world just be posting on MN - you've helped the survivor of a childhood rape.

And I think that's maybe another point - maybe posting on Social Media, etc, doesn't immediately change the whole world, but it sends out ripples and - at the very least - shows women who've been victimised by more than one man in their life that there are good men out there.

I agree that us women should probably stay off the Dadsnet thread - just as women sometimes need a female only space to work out our thoughts, why shouldn't we extend the guys the same courtesy?

OP posts:
MightyNice · 27/04/2012 13:08

where is dadsnet?

on second thoughts they are probably just whining about how things are actually much worse for men and women are just as bad if not worse

CoffeeAhorlicksAnonymous · 27/04/2012 13:42

MightyNice, woman CAN be as violent, as a child I was violently raped by a male but I was also physically abused by two females including being forced fed illegal substances and being stabbed.

The Dadsnet thread should be left to the guys. 1 in 6 males are abused and I for one would raise my voice for them against violence towards males.

Pan, I have a son who I've raised to never hit women and to never accept a woman hitting him, iyswim.

MightyNice · 27/04/2012 13:51

quite

you just have to look at convictions for violent crime to see that women are every bit as violent as men, I think it's something like one man every three days is murdered by his partner or ex-partner

or it might be the other way around Hmm

BasilFoulEggs · 27/04/2012 14:28

that 1 in 6 figure is extremely dodgy. it includes instances of self defence by women who are regularly abused by the men with whom they live and male victims of male perpetrators, as well as one-off incidents, rather than the chronic everyday threat of violence the 1 in 4 women who live with dv suffer.

didn't take long to get to men as victims instead of men as perpetrators, did it

MoralDerangement · 27/04/2012 19:13

it just came up in active convos and it IS whinges about women being as bad as men, haha

there is even an account of a woman 'raping' a man

imagine my surprise

CoffeeAhorlicksAnonymous · 27/04/2012 20:10

The 1 in 6 is male victims of peadophiles.

1 in 4 women are abused at some point in their life.

I am actively involved in campaigning against violence against women and children.

I'm also aware that women who have been damaged by domestic violence can become abusers themselves.

I believe the root cause is DV and girls growing up in that environment can be as likely as boys to know no other way of interacting with people.

I would tell anybody to walk away from anybody who physically abuses.

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/04/2012 20:14

MoralDerangement

you got the response you where looking for from the men
and I got the response that that I was looking for from you.

Doesn't that make us both the happiest people in the world:)

(sarcasm)

Pan · 27/04/2012 20:15

Moral - yes those things have come up, but I'd suggest that isn't reflective of the situation overall.

MoralDerangement · 27/04/2012 20:18

what? Do we 'know' each other BBJ? Any reason you wanted a response from me particularly?

BoneyBackJefferson · 27/04/2012 20:26

moral, I was responding to your post.

I thought that it was what we did on forums.

quite frankly if men relating there experiences is whinging then most of the relationship forum is redundant.
but I shall retreat before I am accused of derailing.

bejeezus · 27/04/2012 20:51

coffee I would add to that....

Anyone should walk away from anyone who mentally and emotionally abuses them as well

IME if you survive the physical violence, its the mental and emotional abuse that does the most damage