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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to really hate the term "birth rape"

396 replies

laumiere · 21/04/2012 12:15

It's from this story where a woman is allegedly put under a GA under her will and given an emergency C section. All very unpleasant (although it does throw up the question as to how much we really expect to control a process which at a basic level is still capable of killing us and our babies) but commentators are starting to term it 'birth rape'. As a rape survivor and someone who has supported rape victims as part of my job I am so sick of this term being overused and devalued! (This goes double for the moronic "draping" on FaceBook).

OP posts:
LeQueen · 21/04/2012 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maddening · 21/04/2012 13:19

yanbu - had never heard of it before and it is wrong - malpractice would be the term she was looking for but surely it wasn't even that if it was to save both her and her baby's lives?

Frape has always made me feel uneasy - I think it's wrong

MrsHoarder · 21/04/2012 13:19

I think this is a woman who would clearly benefit from a discussion with her medical staff as to why what happened did happen. I doubt that the doctors would have done this without good reason, it looks as though she had to go for a c section very quickly to save her baby's life, and there was not time to explain everything sufficiently clearly to obtain consent (also note that she delayed getting an internal monitor: so they would have had less time to react).

If things are exactly as she described I would be very suprised, especially as there is a suggestion that she went in to give birth determined to avoid medical treatment at all costs.

Also in the UK the doctors don't actually need your consent for lifesaving emergency treatment, just a reasonable belief that you wouldn't withhold it (so no do not resusitate or no blood transfusion statements). If things are deteriorating fast in a childbirth situation this could well apply.

YANBU OP.

bejeezus · 21/04/2012 13:19

This sounds unbelievable?????

Even if the CSA happened as she says, and the 'tricking' of her into the GAS..

Surely she wouldn't have left hospital with NOONE explaining what heppened and why?

Where was her dh in all this??? Being mote mobile, why wasn't he marching around for an explanation???

Don't get it, at all

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 13:19

"I think she sounds rather dim, self obsessed and very precious."

does that give doctors the right to perform an operation without consent? without trying to gain consent? by telling her the knock-out gas was oxygen? By separating off her DH?

laumiere · 21/04/2012 13:21

endless as I've said my irritation arises from other people appropriating this story and applying the term birth rape. Google it and you'll see what I mean.

OP posts:
laumiere · 21/04/2012 13:22

Sorry meant fiendish

OP posts:
ForkInTheForeheid · 21/04/2012 13:22

Ffs. Even if, and it is a big if, she is a self absorbed twit, it doesn't change how utterly unacceptable her birth experience was. What is with the tone of disdain in many people's responses? She has been treated appallingly. As for the op's point, I have no problem with the appropriation of the word rape in these circumstances, given that her right to consent to what is done to her body was not only ignored but actively subverted.
On a separate point,can we just get over this overreaction to the use of the term rape in various circumstances? As the dictionary definition posted earlier shows it is not a term with a singular meaning. I think accepting the plasticity of language is preferable to policing it in most circumstances. Does saying "I could murder a coffee?" trivialise the crime of killing another person? f

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 13:22

because they were already monitoring! and it wasn't a case of 'get the clip on, then explain to patient immediately what it shows is desperately concerning and a c/s is going to be required' was it?

DeliaOliver · 21/04/2012 13:23

"This is one woman's biased account of what happened"

Oh Jesus. Do you say that about rape victims too? "But that's what she says...for all we know, she was gagging for it" Hmm

bejeezus · 21/04/2012 13:24

Isn't an internal monitor just like a big microphone IIRC????

EdlessAllenPoe · 21/04/2012 13:24

being operated on without consent is serious laumiere - this is not a trivial event at all.

zookeeper · 21/04/2012 13:25

I didn't say it did; I'm saying she sounds awful. I lost sympathy with her refusal to have the internal monitor and the rather grandiose declaration "this is medical intervention". Yep love, you're in a hospital.Hmm

Giving birth can be brutal and women who moan about their birth plans not being followed to the letter whilst clutching their healthy babies piss me off.

I would be very interested to see the other side of this story

bejeezus · 21/04/2012 13:25

I think a person has completely missed the points of limiting medical intervention, if they are at the point of refusing ECS

maddening · 21/04/2012 13:28

I agree with derby - medical assault would be a better term to use in this case

laumiere · 21/04/2012 13:29

Edless I never said it wasn't

OP posts:
McHappyPants2012 · 21/04/2012 13:30

The forced c section did save mother and baby but it was so wrong.

It gives doctors the red light to do other procedures against the person will........ Like giving blood to a JW or forcing people to have an organ transplant.

My father may have cancer, but he has already said he will not have chemo or life saving treatment as he believes that when you time to die than that gods judgement. So should he be forced to have the drugs.

I feel so sorry for this women, no way should she have had a c section against her will

DeliaOliver · 21/04/2012 13:30

The fact that so many of you would blindly accepted medical intervention is terrifying.

This blog makes interesting reading

zookeeper · 21/04/2012 13:31

..but had the baby died I've no doubt she would have had a thing or two to say too

ShhhhhGoBackToSleep · 21/04/2012 13:31

The thing is, there is no suggestion in the article that the baby was actually in any danger. The issue of a woman refusing intervention while her baby dies inside her is a completely different issue to what the woman in the describes happening to her, that healthcare professionals repeatedly lied to her and performed an operation on her with no reason, discussion or consent.

It does sound like she was very keen to get a VBAC and so changed doctors when their initial positive support turned out to actually be lukewarm, but that doesn't mean she should not have been lied to about what was happening several times, and told to breathe "oxygen" when it was in fact aneasthetic. That is appalling.

My cynical side says that the HCPs looking after her thought she was trouble and would not do as she was told (which, to be fair, she may have been and may have done), so made a decision not to give her a chance to object to what they thought was best for her and her baby.

Yes, it is hard to believe that HCPs would do something invasive to a woman in labour that is not medically required, but the evidence is there in that different hospitals with similar patients have widely different rates for episiotomy and cs. Either some hospitals are doing these procedures unnecessarily (or have policies that lead to these outcomes unnecessarily) or the other hospitals have magic labour fairies that somehow magically make things work out better.

The term birth rape is shocking but I can see how you might compare your feeling of being violated against your will during birth to rape.

bejeezus · 21/04/2012 13:31

delia but there is no benefit to rape. Whilst the Dr may be wrong to operate without consent (if that's what happened?? I imagine most medical professionals value their careers too much to actually do this) there was a beneficial outcome

AnaisB · 21/04/2012 13:32

She describes not only being operated on without consent, but being lied to and not even being given the opportunity to consent. The posters who have said they also had EMCS and were just happy to have a healthy baby were all told what was happening - a crucial difference.

(and I'd be pretty self-focused after her experience.)

FreudianSlipper · 21/04/2012 13:33

horrible

i hate how the word is over used

but no one should dismiss her feelings jsut her choice of words

DeliaOliver · 21/04/2012 13:33

McHappy - "The forced c section did save mother and baby"

How do you know that?

How would you describe what's going on with medical students carrying out inmate exemptions on unconscious patients without consent, as reported here

hairylemon · 21/04/2012 13:33

silly silly woman, Im Hmm about the whole thing since I read the bit about her refusing to have an internal monitor. I mean why on earth would you refuse something that would help to ensure the babies well being? And to look at her H and say "medical intervention #1" just tells me she had her eyes on some compo straight away.

I hope they tell her to piss off.

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