AIBU to really hate the term "birth rape"

[laumiere]

It's from this story where a woman is allegedly put under a GA under her will and given an emergency C section. All very unpleasant (although it does throw up the question as to how much we really expect to control a process which at a basic level is still capable of killing us and our babies) but commentators are starting to term it 'birth rape'. As a rape survivor and someone who has supported rape victims as part of my job I am so sick of this term being overused and devalued! (This goes double for the moronic "draping" on FaceBook).

The fact that this woman switched doctors several times throughout her pregnancy, and states that she looked at her husband and said 'that is medical intervention number one' when a midwife just wanted to know if her baby was stressed, tells me that she is probably a bit of a self centred drama queen.

Why on earth wouldn't you be grateful that everything possible was done to save your baby's life and health?

LeQueen - this case happened in the US, where medical practice especially around birth is very different. The biggest concern of obstetricians is not being sued (and for all doctors, making money in a system where the best way to make money is to carry out as many investigations and procedures as you can). They can avoid being sued by medicalising birth, by performing C-sections even where ANOther doctor in ANOther health system would not. Because suing for birth injury is likely to lead to a far higher payout than assaulting a woman.

Can't they do it without consent if the patient cannot make that descison for themselves? I'm not specifically referring to this case, but what about emergency surgery when a patient is unconscious after a RTA or something? Maybe the same would apply of they believed she was not capable of giving consent?

I also think we have to bear in mind that the doctors have a duty of care to the baby as well as the mother, and where do you draw line between saving a baby and doing what an uncooperative mother wants?

I really don't think something like that would happen in this country, though I appreciate the story is from America so not sure how likely it is to happen there.

In this country I have seen a baby's heart beat dangerously low and we have been begging a woman to consent to ventouse, forceps, etc and she's said no even when told her baby may die. We have had to stand there and try to get her to consent as we can't do anything till she does. Obviously it hten becomes a fine line to wheter we bullied her to get consent but when you can hear a baby dying on the monitor you're desperate. But there's no way we'd do anything unless she consented and if the baby dies then that's what would happen.

Out of interest, how is consent obtained for a crash section? You know, a "this baby needs to be out in the next five minutes" type situation? While everyone's speeding the woman to theatre and putting her under double fast, do they still have time to get her to sign a piece of paper?

I don't like the term, but what the woman describes is horrific and I'm surprised by the lack of empathy she has been shown.

Doctors don't tend to operate on a "whim" or "just for fun" but medical malpractice does occur and informed consent to procedures is not always sought. This woman describes being lied to about anaesthetic medication and says she was not told the reason for the c-section - it's no about not having a "perfect whale music birth" its about medical behaving illegally.

people are born with a free will and a free to choose their path even if you, I or Harry do not understand those motivations... as long as they are compos mentis

interestingly, women who were objecting to rape in the past were put down as "frigid", "what is their problem?", "she should have just enjoyed it"

shocking thread

CSs might not be done just for fun, but statistic suggest that they are often done when they are not necessary. The differences between CS rates in neighbouring hospitals suggests this. Surely there is not some major objective factor that means an extra x% of women in district A need one when they wouldn't in district B?

you don't have to obtain prior consent from an unconscious patient, clearly. Or from one who is incapable of giving consent - often used when a patient has learning disabilities or mental illness. But you do have to obtain consent from anyone who is conscious, aware and capable of giving consent, even if you disagree with their point of view (unless you get a court order- some hospitals have done this in order to treat children against their parent's will). In this country, dunno what the law says in the US. The medical lobby is very powerful there so possibly it's different and docs are allowed to do what the hell they like, especially to women.

"I also think we have to bear in mind that the doctors have a duty of care to the baby as well as the mother"

No, they don't.

Their patient is the woman. They are not allowed to treat her as an incubator to save her baby.

Women don't become less human just because they are giving birth.

The attitudes on this thread to woman's personhood are terrifying.

I should be grateful for being assaulted in a hospital by medical staff?

Fuck off!

I think the term 'birth rape' is horrific and is probably used to describe a terrible birth experience by people who have no idea of the effect rape has on the victim.

I had a horrible birth experience, and felt violated by the whole induction/ labour process, but I think describing it as 'birth rape' is just wrong.

"Rape noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
3.
statutory rape.
4.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force."

If you go by the dictionary definition, the term is correct.

This was a violent, and forced, intimate act performed on a woman's body without consent. How is it not rape?

Remarks like "self centred drama queen" are not showing this forum in a very good light at all. Shame on you.

YANBU about 'birth rape'

But this woman sounds like the sort of selfish cow who'd see her baby stillborn and then try to sue the hospital for not intervening

Trying to save a baby's life is being compared to rape. In fact not even compared, it's just directly being called rape! It's ridiculous.

A thing, the patient is the woman, and of course women shouldn't just be treated as incubators, but a baby is as much a human as the mother. Does a mother have the right to condem someone else to death or disability for a lifetime because they want their rights to come first for a few moments?

Yes LeQueen.

She was ready to try and manage her own birth, rather than have it managed for her. Tis quite common...

Yes we would get written consent even for a GA crash section. I ran an anaesthetist over the other week as I was pulling a bed down the corridor to theatre. He was running alongside the bed thrusting a pen and consent form at the woman. I raced round a corner and squashed him between the bed and the wall.

Maybe if she hadn't refused 'medical intervention #1' the first time it was offered, there would have been no need for a C.Section at all

She sounds like a nightmare patient and I'd love to hear the other side of the story from the medical staff.

It's one thing to try to manage your own birth. It's another to be more concerned about making comments on medical intervention when your baby could be in real danger and fighting for his life.

What leQueen said. This woman is a self obsessed loon imo.