AIBU to really hate the term "birth rape"

[laumiere]

It's from this story where a woman is allegedly put under a GA under her will and given an emergency C section. All very unpleasant (although it does throw up the question as to how much we really expect to control a process which at a basic level is still capable of killing us and our babies) but commentators are starting to term it 'birth rape'. As a rape survivor and someone who has supported rape victims as part of my job I am so sick of this term being overused and devalued! (This goes double for the moronic "draping" on FaceBook).

bejeezus Not typically, most will think what they've done is for the best, but a few will. There are crap egotistical medical people just like there are crap egotistical people in every profession. Being HCP doesn't automatically make them more thoughtful or caring. In the first assault that I described, where I was being held down, the person afterwards walked out of the room saying, very clearly, that it was good that I had been "taught a lesson".

It's not "extreme natural birth shit" to expect to have to give consent before an operation FFS.

I've had two CSs, about to have a 3rd and I would absolutely NOT consider myself to be privileged if doctors operated on me without consent.

The fact that women in Africa don't have access to necessary medical intervention does not mean women in the US should not expect to have to give consent to medical intervention.

"This really colours my opinion of 'medical invervention' in labour that we are privileged to have in the UK

I don't have much patience for all this extreme natural birth shit"

African immigrants that give birth in the UK still have vastly worse outcomes than the general population. possibly ths is because they are treated worse (hard to study).

and not wanting an unconsented C/s is not 'extreme natural birth shit', it is basic human rights! more respect for these rights would lead to better outcomes, not worse.

edlessAllenPoe sadly i think you are right there ARE some drs who just get off on the power trip, thankfully a tiny minority. when i was preg with ds1 i had very bad spd at one point i went along to an ante-natal appo (about 37wks preg) and was in such pain the midwive thought i was in labour, the midwfie examined me, i consented and decided i wasnt in labour, then a consultant came through to speak to me, he then examined me, didnt ask just did it (i was still lying on the bed, legs akimbo etc) he was VERY rough and when he was done said that no i wasnt in labour but he had given me a very thorough sweep to encourage things along!!! WTF not only did he not ask to examine me, he just did it, he made no mention of doing a sweep, or asking if i was ok, i wasnt even DUE yet. the midwife in the room herself looked quite suprised when he said he had given me a sweep and pointed out to the dr that i wasnt even at my due date yet, he simply said 'in his opinion it made sense to try and get things started given my pain etc' fair enough but he should have said that to me and asked for my consent!

YANBU about the term birth rape (and frape). The woman in question does not use the expression.

After reading her story it does sound like a horrible experience. And under those circumstances I think most people be confused and surprised (to say the least) to wake up with a newborn and a scar!

The hospital should have been more open about what was happening (falling heart rate), what it meant for baby and the likelihood of a c-section and she should have been more accepting of intervention if it was necessary. (I only know two births that went according to their birthplans.)

FWIW I had to sign consent forms for a forceps delivery and a spinal block (for the stitching up afterwards) at 10cm and pushing, and again for my second born by elective section. But that was all in the UK.

'possibly ths is because >>in part

My midwive decided at about 35 weeks that she wasnt happy me having a hb.

Why?

She just wasnt happy. No proper reasoning. She then decided to persuade me using various tactics.

I was grand multi para so at risk of a hemorrage.
This was my 4th birth child so I wasnt grand multi para

I was severely aneamic so was at risk of a hemorrage.
My HB was about 10 and within a couple of weeks I had it up to over 12.

I was high risk.
I wasnt. There were no risk factors other than my age - 43.

I had never had a bleed after birth. I had a hb two years previously with no problems. No big babies, no complications - NOTHING.

This wasnt about me, it was about her and her ideas. If she had given me accurate, informed advice I would have taken it.

Oddly enough even trained, qualified professionals have their own agendas.

I suspect there is more to the story than the account we have read. If this was the US I would be surprised they would intervene to this extent without good reason because it is almost inevitable that the woman will sue.

I the account is accurate then it is horrific and potentially a serious assault.

I know that after an EMCS with DS1 (to which I did consent) I still felt upset that the birth had gone so off plan although I was relieved DS1 was fine. It took me quite a while to come to terms with the birth because it was a stressful and worrying experience rather than aromatheraphy and music I was hoping for.

Don't believe that story -sorry but without consent forms they would have their ass sued - no doctor would risk that!!!!

5mad Me too.
I was given a sweep at 37 weeks, the doctor said he would just try to get things 'moving along'. I had no idea what he was doing until afterwards. They'd been all having a look up there due to bleeding and I was contracting. I was 3cm and he said he'd 'be surprised' if baby didn't arrived in the night. She didn't arrive til she was ready at 40+5.

aromatherapy not aromatheraphy

mrsdevere same here with drs, saying i was high risk for no reason, on baby 4 and then baby 5 (think no5 technically may make you higher risk) they quoted bleeding etc, i have NEVER bled much after any of my deliveries, they tried the anaemia thing as well my level was 11.5

they said big babies, true i have big babies but delivered them all naturally that was just luck apparently!

i found it interesting that if you have complications in one delivery you are more likely to do so next time (drs said and they look at your history to see if you are high risk) BUT when you have had a number of normal natural easy deliveries they dont take that into account for next time, apparently it doesnt show that you obviously have a pelvis that is 'designed for childbirth' as one midiwife said i have a very good pelvis! having previous good deliveries was just 'luck' and i was 'pushing my luck' by not wanting a ce section for no 5, when the only reason they said i needed one was because they thought she was big!! she was only 8lb nad i have delivered 4 big babies before just fine!

so i have refused a c section twice and also refused constant montering, midwife happy with intermitent, baby fine but drs desperate to intervene as i was over dates in the end the head midwife came and told them to go away that i was fine and baby was fine they woudl call me if needed. she later told me that 'it was a quiet night and they wanted something to do and i was the most interesting case on the board as i was more than 2wks overdue' hence them pressuring me to accept interventions that werent necessary! so it can and does happen.

kitcat its crap isnt it!! i should have complained but i was just 20 it was my first baby and i didnt know any different :(

by the time i had my others i was more well informed and DID tell them 'thanks but no thanks'!

The story is over a year old. She looked into suing, the legal advice she was given was as there was no physical damage to her or the baby, there was no chance of a payout.

I don't understand the mentality of any woman who would prefer a dead baby to medical intervention but I do wonder why they go to hospital in the first place. Medical professionals are there to do a job and it is extremely unfair to expect them to fail to do their job and let babies die just because a minority of women are selfish idiots who think they know better.

This narcissist had the opportunity to stay at home and have her medical free 'experience' alone but then she'd have nothing to whinge about, would she?

No matter how her birth had gone, she would be complaining and claiming victimhood and encouraged by the other morons on that website to sue. Some people are just like that.

Her story sounds awful but as always it's just her account.

The term 'birth rape' is stupid and distasteful.

As a nurse I always found that Full, open, empathetic and supportive communication with patients solves all issues.

Pressed send too early!

I would assume that there is something either in her paperwork when she was admitted or in legistlation on the state that she is in which gave the surgeons ultimate right to make decisions on her behalf. Since she is US based, there are many states which DO prize the life of an unborn child more highly than that of the mother's so there are legal considerations and possibly precidents there too.

She sounds like she was handled really badly, whatever the circumstances. I doubt the doctors did it for the hell of it though.

YANBU. IMO the woman should be grateful that she has a healthy child. She was being unreasonable not wanting what was best for her child and she most certainly was not raped in any sense of the word.

RedHelen Suing wouldn't work in this case (as said by Clytaemnestra). And people saying they don't believe it makes it more likely that people who have suffered medical assaults won't come forward. Having people brush it aside and not believing (as well as intimidation by HCP and worrying about repercussions if one has to use the same hospital again) is one of the main reasons medical assault victims don't come forward and make formal complaints.

'it's just her account'

yet another comment that makes the similarity to rape stories more apposite.

lack of consent wasn't going to get them sued - no basis for damages (the damages for disability of a child are massive though)

I despise the term 'frape' and am often surprised at the people who use it.

I totally appreciate this woman feeling violated as she had no control over what was happening to her body and didn't have what was going to happen explained to her. I suspect if she had been told that a c-section was best for the baby she would have felt differently (sorry if I missed this)

I didn't have the best experience personally with my emergency c-section but to be honest I was overwhelmed with how relieved and happy I was to have my twins delivered safe and well.

I have never met or heard of any women who would prefer a dead baby over medical intervention.

I know of many who prefer to be given proper, accurate and quality information so they can make an informed decision.

I expect you are one of those.

Jaysus, it's misogyny central here today.

If you'd all look at the comments on the article she posts there occasionally over the next few weeks and months and sounds pretty traumatised by what happened and it seems to have had a long-term impact on her. I don't think she chose to feel that way. She may not sound all that pleasant to many of you but I feel rather sorry for her reading her updates.

Sorry why couldn't she sue on the basis of the harm she suffered both physical and psychological? If the surgery was unnecessary and / or without consent then she has suffered a serious assault.