To feel confused and upset by being ignored

[CaffeineShadow]

Since I have become a mum I have found it hard to make friends with other mums who are on the same wavelength as me. I have lots of old friends who have no children.
Last summer I made a new mummy friend that I met at a playgroup and we got on amazingly well. She has a 3 year old DD as do I. So began a really good friendship where we met up a lot with the children and without. The two girls were calling each other "best friends". She also lives just down the road from me so very handy. She invited me to go to Circus of Horrors with her and we just got on amazingly well and had a lot in common. I started to confide in her about private stuff, naturally.
My DD is a very spirited child, her emotions are so strong whether good or bad.If she doesn't get her own way she screams so loudly, it's quite embarrassing, she can get very hitty and have lots of tantrums. When we met up with the children we had to watch them a lot as they were either totally in love or fighting. But we used to laugh about it as it's quite common at their age.
After a little while of these meetings she came over our house with her daughter and my DD started getting very upset and unruly as her friend was playing with DDs toys. She ended up hitting my friend's DD and having an embarrassing screaming tantrum and so they swiftly left and I obviously punished my DD as much as I could and warned her that her friend's mummy may not allow her DD round to ours anymore if she carried on like that every time.
A few weeks passed where I didn't hear from my friend so I texted her and she said she had just been busy. I asked her if she and her DD would like to meet me and my DD at the park as I thought they would both be out in the fresh air together and they don't have to share any toys.
As soon as they got there I had my back to the children as I said hi to my friend and she was facing them. She suddenly shouted out that my DD was kicking sand at her DD. I quickly picked her up to take her to a table to give her a warning. I told her if it carried on we would go home as it is dangerous and naughty to kick sand. She had a scream and cry then agreed she wouldn't do it again. A few seconds later she was doing it again and my friend looked really pissed off (I don't blame her, so was I!) So again I took her away and she said she needed the toilet so off we went to the toilet and I was going home afterwards. We got back to the park and my friend said she was going. I said I'd just get my stuff together and walk with her. She said she had to go immediately.
After that we were supposed to meet up one on one whilst the girl's where at nursery but when it came to the day she cancelled saying she had totally forgotten she was supposed to meet me so had arranged to meet her family. After that I texted her again about meeting up and she sent a vague msg saying that we should meet up sometime.
A couple of weeks ago I told her about a fete that was on which her and her DD came to but she hardly spoke to me at all and then left as soon as her daughter fell over in the playground. She said we should meet up in the easter holidays.
Over the easter holidays I texted her about three times asking if she wanted to meet up and apologising once again for DDs behaviour to her DD and she sent back vague msgs saying "next week sometime" and didn't mention the apology. When next week came I didn't hear anything.
I have stopped texting her now as I feel like I am chasing and chasing and making myself look like a stalker!
But AIBU to want her to just tell me if she doesn't want to be friends with me and stop skirting around the issue? I am quite upset as we had so much in common and I really thought I had found a really good friend.
If you get this far with the reading, you are amazing and thank you!

Difficult one. In an ideal world your friend would feel able to talk to you about keeping the friendship adult-only for a while. But different people have different tolerance levels and she is making it clear that the friendship not important enough to her to go all out to save it, as you seem prepared to do.

It may not purely be your DD's behaviour though. Not wanting to be unkind, but to use the old cliche, she may be "just not that into you". You have come across as a bit prickly on this thread (understandably to some extent). is that something you tend to do in real life? Is it possibly a combination of her not being as keen as you thought she was, and her DD being a bit fed up with yours?

Sorry if that sounds crap, but not everyone likes everyone. I have had a couple of friends over the years that I liked a lot to start with but went off rapidly due to various niggles. One I had an actual falling-out with after some very bizarre behaviour on her part. One I did the classic "cooling off" thing, just like your friend seems to be doing. I have also been on the receiving end of what I suspect was a "cooling off" on one occasion - I'm not sure what I did but she clearly wasn't that into me!

In terms of your DD's behaviour, I sympathise. My DS (2.9) is behaving fiendishly at present. Not hitting or shoving, fortunately (although he did bite his best friend for the first time ever recently) but general whinging, tantrumming and refusing to do what he is told. His nursery manager claims he is one of the brightest children she has cared for - I am witholding judgement on that since as far as I can see he is as daft as a brush - and that a lot of his behaviour is likely to be down to boredom when he isn't constantly entertained like he is at nursery, but as far as I am concerned, a bright child can't have their behaviour excused on that account. If they are intelligent, then they are intelligent enough to understand "no". I am therefore currently coming down on DS like the proverbial tonne of bricks, particularly where his behaviour is likely to annoy or affect anyone else.

Good luck.

The most important lesson I learned whilst bringing up my children was be consistent.

If you say "no" mean it. Never back track. If you cannot discipline a four year old you will not be able to discipline a fourteen year old.

Your child's behaviour may well improve in school, if she learns to respect school rules, but her behaviour will not improve at outside school necessarily.

It goes without saying that being a parent is not easy. Most people do not like disciplining their children, it is much easier to avoid conflict in the short term. Unfortunately these sorts of behaviour only get worse with time, and need to be addressed.

You are a lovely Mum who is giving your child an enriched childhood with lots of fun experiences. Yet part of your job is also to teach her that she must learn to consider others and especially you.

Do not be afraid that you will lose her love for you if you have to remonstrate with her. Children feel secure and loved when they understand what is permissable and what is not.

A happy well balanced child needs boundaries, they need to know how far they can go, what you will accept and what you wont accept.

Be clear and consistent. Explain the rules to her and stick to them absolutely.

It wont be easy to change your daughter's behaviour but you will be able to do it.

I am sure that you are a good friend to have and I am sorry that your friendship with the other mum did not work out so far. Maybe if she is as nice and caring a person as you seem to be, she will give your freindship another try, if she sees that you are addressing your daughters challenging behaviour.

I wish you well

Throwing sand, hitting, pushing etc is quite commonplace in ds1's preschool. Children at 3yrs are often quite impulsive. They're still learning how to behave appropriately.

Some children are more challenging than others, they will repeat 'naughty' behaviour s more often, they will persist despite being consistent in consequences.

Your dd is still hitting at 3, I would say that is fairly common in that age group, less so at 4. No child is perfectly behaved. They all go through trying phases.

It sounds to me like you're trying your best, and she will get there. The only thing I would say is that if your dd is likely to hit or throw sand, then sit by her while she plays and try and intervene before another child is on the receiving end.

I'm sorry you're struggling right now. I've had moments of despair with ds1, and have spent alot of time worrying about his behaviour. I'm lucky in that I have lots of friends with boys and no-one honestly batted eyelid (except me). I have always been really zero tolerance with hitting. Straight to time out and then an apology.

Our problems now are not physical but verbal, lots of name calling etc.

Ds1 has also been on the receiving end of a fair few wallops from other children, provided the behaviour is dealt with swiftly and effectively by the parent & ds can see that they have had a good telling off then I don't have an issue with this ( has never been hurt).

Ds1 has one friend who is really wild, a lovely little boy but his parents really baby him & pretty much ignore his kicking & hitting. Quite frankly, it is bloody hard work, I find myself not really wanting to meet up as I'm in the position of then having to discipline him too. It's very awkward but I am of the opinion if the mum gets offended then tough. I limit meet ups too.

I would never cut off someone who is clearly trying but I might hover by my own child to protect them. Would also not meet in homes where arguing over toys may happen. Would go for soft play or park and then really supervise. Even avoid places with sand if that's s problem.

I got a bit irritated with the 'spirited' stuff.

And I agree in not labelling your child as 'naughty'. I always point out that the behaviour is naughty.

Sadly I think the OP has made the mistake of interpreting a throwaway comment by a health visitor of her DD being spirited as being a diagnosis. The OP has then read up some half-baked twaddle as though it were gospel.

Quite possibly from the friend's side this friendship was only really about the children. Once that came to an end the friend has stepped back.

I think the OP will ace this one.
I think she'll be muttering under her breath and doing vees at the screen right now....but something tells me that she's going to crack down on it...and be successful!

OP - it is fine to hail your dd as spirited....but the hitting has to stop now. Good luck. xxx

I must admit - I do think the spirited child spiel that the OP posted is a load of nonsense.
A

Spirited is an adjective not a diagnosis.

It is not always the parenting skills that cause a child to behave naughtily. I have 2 very different children.

Ds1 was a challenge from the early days. Ds2 is far more placid & malleable.

If I had had ds2 first I might've been one of those smug parents who believe their child's behaviour is all down to their perfect parenting.

I just thank my lucky stars that ds2 is currently such a little angel and when I see parents of the more 'spirited' children they get my empathy not my judgement.

Okay, I get that to a lot of people, the whole 'distance myself and let the other person slowly get the hint I don't want to be friends anymore' is an acceptable thing to do. And I agree, if everyone is on board with that and understands that.

But clearly, sometimes the other person does not get what is happening, and keeps texting and calling. And why not? After all you are constantly saying 'maybe next week' and 'some other time'.

In that case, I think it's a bit cruel and cowardly to let that person keep not getting the hint and wondering what's going on. There are diplomatic ways of breaking up with a friend, just like with a man.

I accept I may BU in this opinion however, I'm originally from New York and we are a bit more rude and sweary direct

Exactly Hobnobs, the problem is that some people do assume that everything a healthcare professional says is somehow 'official'.

I posted earlier in the thread about having a friend like this and I wanted to add something else.

If the friend I have was very vigilant, and was doing her best to stop her son hurting mine then I actually would be far happier about still meeting up with her.

But I KNOW that she will do as she always does. watch him hurt my son and then say "oh sorry, he really is a proper little boy ho ho ho"

I wondered if maybe there is a bit of this going on with the OP? No-one expects children to behave all the time, we all know they go through phases of hitting/pushing/biting/not sharing etc etc etc... and if a parent is pro-active in stopping this and you know they're doing their level best then I am sure the majority of people would just get on with it, or else say "i still want to be friends but can we keep it adult only"
it's just really hard when you feel a person could do more, because you KNOW that your child will end up getting hurt, rather than just knowing they may get hurt. and there is a big difference in that.

perhaps the OP's friend feels that if she can't stop her daughter hurting her child then she doesn't care very much about the friendship anyway?

It was just a thought, and I have not read the last few posts, so may be irrelevant, but it seems like there are a few people berating the friend for not talking to the OP about it and sorting it out and saying the OP has had a tough time and I kind of wanted to put my view across.

I have this similar situation going on with my best mate

Her kids are so whiney - they constantly tell tales on my 2. They're all just rubbish together.

My kids are pretty awful too.

A bit of time and distance usually sorts the whole lot out.

The thing is...the health visitor will say every third child that comes in is 'spirited'...that's just what they say isn't it?
I'm pretty sure the hv has said the same for all three of mine.
It doesn't mean anything.

i'm also interested OP in why your child is only "spirited" with this other girl?

you say she is fine at nursery and with all other children?

if this behaviour had anything to do with being a spirited child why woudl she not show it all the time?
I've read raising your spirited child, as it described DS1 to a T when he was little, but I don't think it actually excuses the kind of things your DD is doing... sorry

I hear parents talking about their 'spirited' child a lot. Another one becoming more frequent is 'feisty'. As a nursery nurse I work with children aged 2 to 3 and the ones given this tag by their parents are usually the ones who have trouble sharing, playing with other children, can be very hitty etc. (I'm NOT saying this is necessarily the case with the OP's child as I don't know them) and their parents do seem to have difficulty in really knuckleing down and dealing with the behaviour.

It's really bloody hard being a parent, especially when these issues occur but the only thing to do is deal with it head on and ride out the storm. If you keep being consistent and letting her know that her behaviour has consequences whether that be lots of praise for acceptable behaviour, or some kind of punishment for unacceptable behaviour, she will get there in the end. It sounds like you really do want to deal with this so keep it up and good luck! With regards to your friend, I think she's making her feelings known so I would just let that go to be honest.

DS1 was a "spirited" child. Very intelligent, lively like a gnat on speed, had a biting phase drove me to the edge of my sanity. I lost count of the number of times we left places early due to me having warned him about his behaviour and then we would have to leave as he would misbehave again. Trust me I do sympathise. But I watched him like a hwak and there were consequences for poor behaviour.
Fast forward a decade and yes he can be a typical grunting teenager but he channels his energy levels into lots of sport and excercise, is doing well in school and makes an awesome carrot cake . A difficult spirited toddler can grow into an engaging teen and hopefully an adult who can be a pleasant and sociable member of society. It just takes patience and hard work and tons of love.

Completely agree Mobley. My children are like yours, except the other way round. Dd was my first, a completely placid angel who was/ is easy to reason with. Then came along ds, the complete opposite, loud, noisy, tough, strong, fearless, frustrated due to verbal communication issues. People look at us and I know they are thinking 'I'm glad my child is not like that'. Bless him, because he is hard, he does lash out because of frustration, he has spectacular tantrums, although we're pretty much in control of these things these days. But when I just had dd I was super smug parent, I'm ashamed to admit it but it's true. Now I've seen the other side, really seen the other side and it's knocked all that smugness out of me. I've worked hard to get ds's behaviour under control, and have been successful, but it took a while. And he is still feisty, spirited and out there, all those words people dont seem to like. Not bad or naughty, just frustrated. I'm sure if his speech picks up he will be a far happier chilled out child.

I did the same with dd at tots group after she rammed some poor unsuspecting wee tiddler with a buggy, then dashed him to the floor by hand, as the buggy hadn't had the desired effect.

Coat on and goodbye. She was not happy at all....but she had been warned. Her and her spirit.