to be upset DM left 9 week old alone all night...

[kiki22]

DS stayed over with my mum last night for the first time he is 9 weeks i know some may say this is to early and why would i want my baby to stay away but i am happy with him staying with his grandparents over night so don't need any advice on that it's what happened last night that i'd like opinions on.

When DS is at home he goes up to the bedroom to his crib about 7 and stays there alone untill i go to bed about 10 with the baby monitor on then is in the room with us the rest of the night. My mum has a bedroom for my niece at her house which isn't used as DN sleeps with DM the plan last night was to settle DS in the kids room and DN in DMs room then swap them at DS 12am feed i was ok with this as DSD would be awake until then.

What actually happened was at 12 they decided not to move the kids incase DN (5) woke up as 'she would be up for ages' at first i thought DSD co-slept in the single bed with DS which i wasn't very happy with anyway since he had his pram he could have slept in as need be but then i was told actually DM DSD and DN all slept together while DS slept down the hall on his own all night apart from his 12 and 4 feeds.

I am so upset not only because of the risks of cot death or any major problem that are unlikely but the thought of my tiny baby waking up all alone during the night. He quite often wakes and moans a little to be settled so even tho it didn't happen if he did wake he would have had to cry loud enough to wake someone sleeping in another room to be comforted by which point he would be very upset. AIBU or would you be upset to? I said something earlier which was brushed off but really feel like i need to tell her it's not acceptable and would like an apology tbh.

Of course there is research curry! I pointed out early in the thread that research changes/conflicts depending on its integrity. And as I have repeatedly pointed out, even the most reliable research needs to have ones personal situation factored in. Sometimes what might be best for one individual ISN'T best for another. That's why many people found it so offensive that people jumped on the op saying she should not leave her child I the first place...

I've lost sight of what this thread is about now, and I don't like seeing people upset. I'm drawing my line and stepping away, I hope anyone else upset can do the same and that I've not offended anyone.

No callmemrs, you persistently accused Lil of passing off her own personal opinion as fact without any backing from research.

You demanded, quite rudely imho, that she show you the research to demonstrate that the advice was "official" and not just her opinion.

She already had, but she patiently posted it again.

You ignored it for well over an hour

All this to a lady who patently has some very painful personal experience of the subject, not just getting her rocks off on making her point for the sake of it.

IMHO you have been rude and agressive and shown yourself up rather. As I said, if I were Lil I would have called you a lot worse things than middle aged tbh. Now I really am going to get that coffee!

You get your coffee and calm down.
I stand by what I said: no NO ONE can say that it is 'best' for another individual to always be in the same room as their sleeping child for a minimum of 6 months because none of us know their circumstances. And the personal circumstances can actually lead the lesser risk to be the opposite of the research.

It is not helpful to guilt trip or scaremonger other parents who are dealing with their own (possibly sensitive and painful) circumstances

Not sure if anyone's linked to this yet. The daytime naps advice has been around since 2007:

FSID info on daytime sleep.

To minimise the risk of SIDS babies should not sleep alone day or night. This is UK advice.

Yabu.

Whether or not people think it's right to hand a 9 week old over for an overnighter (I don't see the problem at all, but to each their own) isn't the issue.
The baby was NOT 'left alone all night' - he was well taken care of.
Don't be so soft OP.

callmemrs. You said several times that you beleieved lil was "scaremongering" and her view had no basis in scientific fact. You even rolled your eyes at her and said "No link " when she had posted he damn link twice. That is what I think was rude and unecessary.

And thanks, I am perfectly calm and the coffee is lovely!

The op is starting from the premise that a) she is not bf and b) she is happy to leave her baby at night without the mother or father there.

Various people have jumped in to tell her she is putting her baby at risk by doing both these things. And that is helpful and supportive how exactly?

Are we just now having a commentary about the thread now then?

But he said
Then she said
And then
And then

Are we all 7?

retires from thread

It seems I am Kay

I'll be off too

none of the evidence has ever been totally substantiated

the only evidence that fsids is almost conclusively sure of is that smoking and placing in a position other than on the back and feet to foot with head uncovered is what they are totally sure of are the major risk factors

the links posted on here refer to sleeping in another room - but even then there is almost always another variant at play in addition to the lone sleeping - eg maternal smoking or the head becomes covered with bedclothes, lying in prone position. sleeping alone in itself is not the major risk factor
and on the fsids website they do advise to give dummies even though they are not sure of the reasons why. - it is one of their bedtime basics. they don't know why it reduces the risk but it does seemingly - that doesn't mean every mum has to give a dummy
being able to breastfeed at all is thought to reduce the risk - not necessarily for 6 mths. but bf does not rule it out completely in the same way that ff does not guarantee a death. if a mum breastfeeds for a short time her risk is the same as a mum who bfs for longer. the risk reduction might not even be to do with the milk itself after a certain age but could be because of other outside factors eg maternal age or whether the mum smokes which might have a correlation with breastfeeding
there are so many risk variants -including social class, maternal age , mental illness, physiology and genetics etc but the variants are so intertwined no one can say for sure that one of these small factors are a definite cause of SIDs in itself. you could argue that it may be better for a baby to sleep alone than in a room with a parent who has smoked earlier in the day? have they done any research on this comparasion yet?

if the ops mum was taking all the rest of the major precautions ie on back, no smoke, feet to foot with appropriate bedding then the risk was minimal. Her finding here is that to have total control she must look after her child herself regardless of who begs to look after him.

people are given the advice but will fit in with their own situation. i have every sympathy to anyone with a history of sids but by being critical of every small thing that a parent does is a road to nowhere but further heartache for yourself.
research is always ongoing with different results ( i remember media frenzy about the anne diamond campaign about antimony which has now been discredited) who is to say another report won't support it again in the future. I'm quite sure that there will be more research in the future which will tell us that we've all been doing something else wrong.
I think we just have to accept that everyone has the right to parent as they see fit and that risks in all aspects of life cannot be eliminated as life throws up so many variants we can't and won't all do it the same way. we shouldn't let it fall into the trap of a tit for tat against each other

Blubberyboo speaks sense! Exactlly people will parent how they want to!
The fsids advise is there for what it is 'advise'-u don't have to follow every single thing! Of course no smoking near baby or in room baby sleeps, always put your baby on its back foot to bottom of cot & blankets not too high-they are the main things to follow , the rest is personal choice or practicalities.
No one has to bf if its not right for them-scaremongering tactics at its best further down the thread.

Totally agree with Blubbery.
I think another bit of sound advice is to approach threads on MN with the assumption that the op is a good parent doing the best in their own circumstances. Part of the problem is that some people seem to assume that it's their job to jump on posters, assume they are not capable of running their own life and start criticising their parenting on issues which haven't even been raised in the op!

To return to my original post on this thread-

Op- your child is fine, and was perfectly well cared for. If you want him looked after precisely as you would do, then you need to take care of him yourself for the moment

But it really all sounds fine.

"Of course no smoking near baby or in room baby sleeps, always put your baby on its back foot to bottom of cot & blankets not too high-they are the main things to follow"

Don't forget that it is smoking during pregnancy is one of the biggest risk factors.

Of course people decide what advice to follow, but that's no reason to prefer be ignorant of it when making your decisions . OP herself mentioned SIDS, so various people have pointed out that leaving baby alone for naps and in the evening is also a risk. This seems perfectly reasonable, given that she apparently didn't know it. Whether or not she chooses to modify her baby's sleeping arrangements based on this info is entirely up to her .

callme - the OP said she was worried about SIDS. I and others have drawn her attention to the fact the something she is doing daily is considered a risk factor for SIDS - assuming that the OP was ignorant of this information.
I don't call that jumping on her.

I don't see the issue with your dc staying with parents at that age. I wouldn't but, that doesn't mean that everyone should do the same. However, if you leave your child with someone (at any age) you should understand that, while most will stick to what you have requested, sometimes a decision is made ay short notice. You were happy for your dc to sleep alone for half the night so why not the other half? I think yabu and asking for an apology is petty. If you want your child looked after how you want 100% of the time, keep them with you. I also think the 'mum made me leave ds' is an excuse. You wanted a break fine, but your saying your mum made you give in? You need to take control if that's the case.

Blubberyboo very good post indeed. I agree with you 100%. I wish I could express myself that clearly

Regarding the SIDS advice - have I got it right that if a baby doesn't hear its mother breathe it goes into a deeper sleep (which I can believe - it is a shutdown for survival purposes) - but then 'forgets to breathe'? I don't understand the science behind that bit and would be most grateful for an explanation.

I thought it was something to do with the Mother being tuned to the babies breathing and of course waking when something changed...but your description sounds more possible jif

There are various hypotheses about what may be contributory factors- as far as i am aware very few are substantiated though. Not being a smoker (mother or father) and not laying the baby on its front are two things which have clearly been proven to reduce the risk. Even then there may be other variables which affect individual situations eg prem babies are sometimes slept on their front.

I just looked at the research but it's all a bit vague. I think we should be encouraged to trust our instincts a lot lot more. Losing touch with our instincts is what puts our babies at risk. My youngest ended up in bed with us for a long time as she had health complications, the oldest stayed in longer because she was a bit clingy. I don't like these time limited rules - why 6 months?

I'm actually in admiration of OP because she left her baby with someone else so early on! OP must have known deep down she would be OK.

And she was.

I actually don't think it is at all U to ask a relative to do things (feeding, sleeping times and arrangements, etc) the way you'd like. Obviously, they have the perfect right to decline.

Free childcare isn't the same as paid for childcare or doing it yourself, the person providing it gets to decide how they care for that child, you either accept their way or look after your DC yourself or pay a professional.
I completely disagree. Payment is a separate issue. If someone offers or agrees to a favour, that doesn't mean they get to do it 'their way' - unless of course that is what you both have arranged. (To make an analogy...If I had a friend who was a hairdresser, and she asked me, as a favour to her, to let her cut my hair in a particular style for her portfolio or for practice, and I agreed, that would be one thing. If she agreed to cut my hair as a favour to me, I'd still expect to be able to tell her what style I wanted!) I don't feed my baby beef. It's a personal choice. I'd be raging if my mum gave her a burger. Before I'd leave her with a minder OR a relative, I'd be clear about what our rules are, and if they weren't ok with that, I'd make other arrangements. But if they agreed, knowing what I expected, and then just did as they pleased, I'd be very annoyed. It is about communcation and agreement of the terms.

OP, I think it is very reasonable to say to your mum, "I'm not comfortable with the idea of baby sleeping far from you without a baby monitor". It sounds like you didn't really communicate your expectations to her ahead of time and give her a chance to say "sorry, I don't want to take it on then", so I would not be asking for an apology, frankly - just have a respectful talk with her about your wishes and see if she's amenable to looking after him he way you'd like; if she's not, then I guess you have to decide if you can adjust to that, or decline the favour in future.

I've spoken to my mum and she won't leave him again she thought it would be ok since he's left alone in my house i explained it would be ok with the monitor possibly but i'd much rather he be in the room.

Done.