to laugh at the reverence with which some people on mn write about universities?

[Pickgo]

I've seen Russell Group universities written about as though their students have a passport to success and that their standards are so much higher than the rest of the HE offering.

The only difference I can see between a RG and ordinary university is that they focus on research and get extra funding to do so. That does not necessarily benefit students, in fact it could be argued it is to the students' disadvantage as teaching is not a RG uni's priority.

Also altho their admission requirements are ostensibly higher, many students who actually get a place obtain it in clearing with much lower points - which makes a nonsense of the 'RG snobbery' being trotted out.

Another thing I've seen suggested is that potential students will have their FB accounts checked before they are offered a place. I've never known anyone who would have the time or inclination to look up an 18 yr old on FB as part of admissions.

Potential students are the paying customer now and will be a sought after commodity.

Can I also just point out that average contact time in HE is 6-8 hours and most of what students achieve in their 3-4 years at uni is down to their own motivation and a good library imho.

as a post graduate, i always say the dopiest dimmest can get a degree if they put in the slog

its really not that difficult

All I know is that my dh recruits hundreds of people every year and he never gives the uni or indeed the degree a second glance. All he cares about is whether they have intelligence and excellent interpersonal skills and can persuade people to do stuff they may not necessarily want to.

He reckons he can tell within 5 minutes of an interviewee opening their mouth whether they are going to work within his organisation (massive global pharma corp)

I never understand the 'check facebook thing'. Why would anyone have it public? Put the tightest security on it and they can't see anything.

I think that once you have been through the system you can see that university isn't necessary for the majority-the over 50% is utterly ridiculous.

RG universities have a good rep and it's often easier to get a job later on the strength of the name of your uni. Whether or not the uni actually lived up to its rep in terms of your degree is another matter!

I agree with your last point. Personal motivation is key and if the student wants to progress (and will accept advice on how to do so from those in the know) then they will do well, regardless of which uni they attend.

I don't think uni is the be-all and end-all (and I did a degree plus a PhD so it's not sour grapes)!! Look at Suralan - he's a zillion times richer than I'll ever be and did it all as a cheeky entrepreneur

I think. If you don't think there's a difference in quality between some (not all) of the universities and their student bodies then you're uninformed. Have you ever taught in one or more universities? Of course there are differences worth commenting on and coveting. Same as all workplaces and directly relevant to outcome in some cases.

I graduated in 2006 and I don't know what a RG uni is? I went to Liverpool, which apparently was/is classed as red brick - is that the equivalent?

TBH I think YABU. Lots of people haven't been to University or to former polys. They don't necessarily know how the Russell Group Unis operate. They might be wrong to hold them in reverence, but I understand why they do.

It depends entirely on the course-they should do their research on the best place. DS1s happened to be RG, but DS3s didn't.DS2 did much better without going at all.

YANBU

RG is fine and good but to hear some people on here you'd think it was Willy Wonkas Golden ticket.

When recruiting I don't look at the uni. 1 in 5 graduates are RG so it doesn;t whittle the pile down much

I thought that too......then ds1 chose to read law ( i usually say study law ) and in actual fact there is a real very strong element of university snobbery and many of the law firms wont look at less than a 2:1 from a RG.

RG this last year,before the increase in fees were vv selective in fact my own ds only managed to get in through absolute determination and encouragment from mumsnet = i think some degrees may not need RG status but definitely some do .....and my ds certainly spends more than 8 hours per week in university as well as hours and hours self study.

I am thinking if applying for a job, for which any degree will do apparently. But, the advert says "preferably from a Russell Group University". I have never heard that my University is, so I am guessing it isn't! I don't know whether it is worth applying for or not? I can pretend to be fairly posh when I have to be (DPs work functions and similar).

Mavis just go for it!! preferably doesnt mean only g'luck.

It really, really does depend on the course and the industry

I don't think it is really about the Russell Group. The Sutton Group has a list of universities that it thinks should be looked at as a measure of social mobility. It has universities on such as Durham, which are not part of the Russell Group but would be considered as equivalent to, or better than some, RG institutions by employers like law firms.

How does your DH whittle down the cvs to the ones he wants to interview though mumbles? Not having a go, just curious, surely nobody has the time to interview all applicants?

yanbu

Also - globally RG means nothing.

I think lots of universities are very good without being 'Russell Group' or 'Oxbridge'. It's especially true when you're looking at specific courses - for example, there are universities that are not well respected in general, that are outstanding at one or other course. Teeside is very good for Engineering, though not so well respected for other things.

I do think, though, that your point about contact time is a bit strange. Contact time is a funny concept. Of course, when you have a five year old, it matters how many hours that child is in contact with an adult. But it is absurd to count university students' study in terms of 'contact time', and often the worst universities have the most contact time.

IMO, it it very unfair that some schools do not tell their students what to expect. It is not fair to say that children of 18 should know that 'Russell Group' refers to a research and funding group - I think far more information should be made available much more easily, so fewer people get these mistaken ideas about universities.

Sutton 13:

Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Durham, Edinburgh, Imperial, LSE, Nottingham, Oxford, St Andrews, UCL, Warwick and York

1. Work on a degree course 9-5 as though it was a job, attend every single lecture/seminar/tutorial and do every bit of homework and it's pretty hard not to get a degree.

1. The Russell Group is just a guild - there are other perfectly respectable guilds, including the 1994 group, which also includes many research-intensive universities (but generally those founded after 1960 and before 1988).

1. Sometimes the veracity of students' claims in the personal statement are checked on the internet, if they seem outlandish.

1. Course quality varies within universities - for example if you want to do a course in urban architecture, Cambridge would not be the place to start looking, as somewhere like South Bank might be better. H

RG means a lot overseas. I work with international students at a RG university.

Boffin - well said. I think this is the problem, isn't it? Many students do not understand that, if they have (say) four hours of contact time in a week, they do still need to work between 30 and 40 more hours studying as well as that.

Frankly, it is most often the lazy students who fail and then complain.

I recruit globally

Trust me, Cardiff Uni does not stack up against Ivy League.

sorry - computer problem. Continued ...

However if you want to start a brilliant career as a lawyer, then Cambridge might well be a good place to apply to. You have to find out which departments have a good reputation generally in certain subjects rather than listening to the universities' PR or general gossip.

Russell Group (PR supremos)

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
Cardiff University
University of Edinburgh
University of Glasgow
Imperial College London
King's College London
University of Leeds
University of Liverpool
London School of Economics & Political Science
University of Manchester
Newcastle University
University of Nottingham
University of Oxford
Queen's University Belfast
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University College London
University of Warwick

1994 Group (always pointing out that they are as good as the Russell Group)

University of Bath
Birkbeck, University of London
Durham University
University of East Anglia
University of Essex
University of Exeter
Goldsmiths, University of London
Institute of Education, University of London
Royal Holloway, University of London
Lancaster University
University of Leicester
Loughborough University
Queen Mary, University of London
University of Reading
University of St Andrews
School of Oriental and African Studies
University of Surrey
University of Sussex
University of York