to laugh at the reverence with which some people on mn write about universities?

[Pickgo]

I've seen Russell Group universities written about as though their students have a passport to success and that their standards are so much higher than the rest of the HE offering.

The only difference I can see between a RG and ordinary university is that they focus on research and get extra funding to do so. That does not necessarily benefit students, in fact it could be argued it is to the students' disadvantage as teaching is not a RG uni's priority.

Also altho their admission requirements are ostensibly higher, many students who actually get a place obtain it in clearing with much lower points - which makes a nonsense of the 'RG snobbery' being trotted out.

Another thing I've seen suggested is that potential students will have their FB accounts checked before they are offered a place. I've never known anyone who would have the time or inclination to look up an 18 yr old on FB as part of admissions.

Potential students are the paying customer now and will be a sought after commodity.

Can I also just point out that average contact time in HE is 6-8 hours and most of what students achieve in their 3-4 years at uni is down to their own motivation and a good library imho.

The reason they do this is because someone who was good enough to get into the top 5 universities in the UK has already been tested and preselected rigorously so it makes sense to only choose from that pool of talent. It makes their recruitment process a lot simpler and quicker.

Morebeta - that was part of the point of my post - that it's just not true that students are rigorously selected. Some are, but the unis need to fill their courses and will take the highest scoring candidate they can get in clearing, who make well have significantly less points than someone already with a place. Unis will need to do this even more in future because they are competing for paying customer/students. Ironically once you get a group of first year undergrads in it makes very little difference how they performed at A level ime.

The assumptions laid bare in Bofmums repeated HE hierarchies are just not based on anything meaningful - it's just a whole load of snobby nonsense that is perpetuated by people who should no better.

Well it's a bit insulting to kids who happen to be clever to make out that they can't perform ordinary manual tasks, when many have worked for years in very mundane weekend and holiday jobs.

As for your portrayal of poor little rich kids with what you clearly think are pointless degrees....

Lets hope I'm not the only one who sees lots of able, hard-working kids out there who put the older generations to shame.

That was @ Mavis.

And recruiters for top jobs appear to select incredibly rigorously, far more so than they used to. For Magic Circle firms in the City, for example, a student now has to write an application form with full refs etc. to compete for a Vacation Scheme placement, go through the interview process for that, get an offer for that, work for two to three weeks through the summer months under constant surveillance all day every day including evening socials, go through another interview cycle and on all fronts be better than the competition.

Oh come on, they have some lovely guys working for them too. They are the ones who get taken on. But that sort of work does seem to be idealised by some people as a bit of an easy glam ride. But in reality it is bloody hard work, and the guys who own the company are slogging their guts out doing 18 hour days they don't expect recent graduates to cry off when they are cold, wet and tired! Maybe a more vocational approach would be better, then people would realise what they are letting themselves in for. DP adores it though, so not trying to insinuate that anyone needs to get the violins out for him. At 35 he has found something he is really good at, that he enjoys.

As I said up thread: I am about to be a graduate and job hunting. So, I would hate that my years of hard slog would be derided by someone, feel a bit bad now .

Well it might help if you say what easy glam ride it is that your geeky ex builder two GCSE DP does for 18 hours a day while he's targeting Jizzmop grads. Probably better if you said than I guessed.

Anyhow, possibly not the obvious first choice for BoffinMum's hapless Oxbridge grads who can't swing a mop.

@morebeta I know several (well, >3

He works in the boring bit of telly, rigging and editing. As far as I am aware he doesn't target anyone; he just talks to partner his about people who stupidly shoot themselves in the foot by being a bit cocky when they get a good degree from somewhere that is respected in that particular industry. She then drunkenly repeats it on the Internet in response to someone who mentions something along the same lines.

@yellow I can't swing a mop. :( But that's because I'm dyspraxic, not because I went to Cambridge.

I can swing a mop, but guilt my poor boy made good, meedja lovey DP into doing it, whilst I toil away in my ivory tower of academia

I agree a lot if the hierarchy is snobby nonsense btw. Any graduate who is cheerful, willing, smart, turns up to work when they are supposed to, shows just the right amount of initiative, is reasonably numerate, and can write letters and reports with perfect spelling and grammar will always get a decent job in the end. Add to that a foreign language and some customer service skills and you will do even better.

And if any soon to be grads are reading this, networking with potential employers before you see them advertising potential jobs improves your chances of being taken on no end.

Hmm well BoffinMumon that one I expect the big name unis do have the edge, because the smart firms come to town, ply the willing undergrads endlessly with champagne at receptions, take them to smart places for supper and beg to be allowed to sponsor balls etc. etc.

A free biro used to be good enough, no?

It makes me [bugrin] that my uni has gained extra status after I left.

I agree with the OP several non RG institutions do my subject to an equally high standard.

I simply choose my place of study because I liked the campus and I could get home for the weekend.

I had to google russell group and found that i did in fact attend a Russell group university. I applied there because my mum had just died and i was near the deadline to send the ucas form off but couldnt face thinking about it. I walked into the career room of the school i was at picked up a few booklets and actually applied for universities in the order i had picked them up - didnt read anything about them, didnt look at required grades just shoved the codes etc in and sent it off.
The one i ended up which was my first choice was cardiff, i only remember two others warwick and plymouth i cant remember what others i put down.
I spent three years working in various shops to pay bills etc and occasionally attending lectures - (history degree) then got pregnant in the final year. Graduated in the summer and had my dd in september then 4 more dcs in the last 7 years. I think my life would have turned out the same no matter what uni i was at.

I am surprised that its is meant to be more difficult to get in to certain ones because i just had 6 (or however many ) letters back offerin me a place no interviews or anything so russell group universities cant be that picky.

my dh works with people who've done the Oxbridge thing. He hasn't got a degree and is always suprised at how they feel that they are entitled do forge ahead in their careers based soley on their degree from Oxford when some of them have zero common sense and are late/unreliable, but spent three years studying classics so ought to be on a 6 figure salary yeah right dream on chumps

and maybe they're pissed off that a man without a degree, never mind bloody russell group, is supervising them and earns a lot more

Metabilis - the global accountancy firms recruit from RG but to be frank they are very much second in the pecking order behind City banks and law firms. Accounting firms recruit from all RG universities because they have to - City banks and law firms don't.

I think a lot of people would assume York is RG anyway which of course it now is.To be honest what they really mean by RG is not an ex poly or a very new university,although I do think there is a generally agreed top 20

For what it's worth there's quite a lot of inverted snobbery (and snobbery generally)on this thread but the OP would be very unreasonable to laugh at people aiming for a rip university because it most definitely does make a difference in the job Market and to ignore that would be more than a little naive

I hate this phone I mean top university why dud it change that to rip?

I have a friend who lived near one of the ex polytechnics.

She alway told visitors her house was left after the Polyversity [bugrin]

5dcs, you sound a bit like me, I applied to my "Russell group" uni simply because it was the closest one, I took a very unconventional route to get there and whilst my recent academic activity had been to a high standard, my a levels 10 years previously had not. I too had to google Russell group. I do agree that it takes a great deal if hard work in sone cases to get into a decent uni and graduates should have some credit for this. However many of my fellow younger students have never done a day's paid work in their lives so I do sometimes wonder how they can truly be prepared for the world of work.