to laugh at the reverence with which some people on mn write about universities?

[Pickgo]

I've seen Russell Group universities written about as though their students have a passport to success and that their standards are so much higher than the rest of the HE offering.

The only difference I can see between a RG and ordinary university is that they focus on research and get extra funding to do so. That does not necessarily benefit students, in fact it could be argued it is to the students' disadvantage as teaching is not a RG uni's priority.

Also altho their admission requirements are ostensibly higher, many students who actually get a place obtain it in clearing with much lower points - which makes a nonsense of the 'RG snobbery' being trotted out.

Another thing I've seen suggested is that potential students will have their FB accounts checked before they are offered a place. I've never known anyone who would have the time or inclination to look up an 18 yr old on FB as part of admissions.

Potential students are the paying customer now and will be a sought after commodity.

Can I also just point out that average contact time in HE is 6-8 hours and most of what students achieve in their 3-4 years at uni is down to their own motivation and a good library imho.

Many employers look down on degrees from non RG Universities. I've been told my degree is not worth the paper it was written on. It has also been suggested that I cannot have done any work for it.

The college I am at (whitelands) was formed in 1841, it forms part of The University of Roehampton, which was part of Surrey and then became independent in 1994. How does the snob factor work in that instance? It's really old, but also really new!

bunny I can believe that and I bet it didn't have to do with your mother - I think they just care.

I did my Masters elsewhere, and I loved it, but I felt constantly very worried. York dived in and supported me, and I have never looked back since. They are were so practical - they told me stuff like, would I have to pay council tax and how much would my rent be. They were really aware of normal stuff like that - and IME, other universities were not!

They're not perfect - I am angry right now as I am out of pocket for a conference trip - but they are so much better than other Russell Group places I know of!

Some applicants will care about the snob value of the institution. I don't think BM was saying that is a positive thing, but pretending snobbery doesn't exist and it isn't a factor will not make it go away.

dial - well, you and I can stick together as new/old students!

I think all this stuff about Russell Group/nor Russell Group/new members just goes to show: these things change all the time. It's clear some universities have better teachers and/or better facilities than others - but to be honest, when we're undergraduates, we all do our best.

IMO there is big difference between a student at Oxford or wherever who does very well and someone at a not-well-known university who does badly. But, there is not such a huge difference between someone at not-well-known- university who does well, and someone at Poncey-University who does well. After undergrad degrees are finished, it is soon clear who's good.

1. Work on a degree course 9-5 as though it was a job, attend every single lecture/seminar/tutorial and do every bit of homework and it's pretty hard not to get a degree.

Methinks Boffinmum somehow went from age 17 to 25 and missed all the fun[bugrin]

St Andrews was formed in 1413 -- seems pretty ancient to me.

Hey, I am not saying I agree with the snobbery! That's just how this stuff gets bandied about!!

And it's not my categorisation - that's basically what the historical research literature says about the origins of HE.

And of course places like St Andrews and so on are old, it's just they are kept out of the elite gang and don't have reciprocal arrangements (which is obv ridiculous).

The snob thing linked to age applies to the age of schools (esp independent schools) as well ... very much a British thing, to be so snobby.

And from 17-25 I was hard at work, never a drop of the hard stuff passed my lips nor did I ever get pg at any point and I certainly never skived a single lecture to go shopping Perfect student, me.

Well i have not a clue what constitutes high level Unis' etc...but my dd has had offers' from 2 in the '1994' list...are they the shit list?

I've always taken the reference to RG on MN simply to mean top end well respected universities and never bothered to quibble about the fact that Oxford and Cambridge are not distinct and that the 1994 group includes equally if not better respected universities than many of those in the RG.

Nevertheless, YANBU, esp. when a poster frets that their 3yo is not holding their pencil correctly and that all hopes of a RG uni look set to be dashed.

No crazy, unless you mean shit hot :)

Oh thanks Yellow...I will tell her she is shit hot then

Where would you find out which courses are better at which university? I am a complete novice in this, I start my degree in September, I am going to University of Birmingham to do Ancient and Medieval History. As I am a mature student and cant move or travel too far the choice was birmingham or Wolverhampton, everyone said there was no point doing history at Wolves and to only use the place for vocational degrees. How can I find out the 'rating' of the history department for Birmingham for future reference, (and because I am nosey cow and this thread has made me even more nosey )

I chose my University based on being able to commute from home for both financial reasons and that my Dad was terminally ill at the time, so I was needed at home. Also not all Universities offered the course I wanted to do.

I think OU degrees should be more respected. I am impressed by those who have held down full time jobs, had children and studied for a degree all at the same time. Surely that shows great time management skills as well as dedication and drive to succeed.

Great, so when I teach during my PhD the students are going to hate me because I am not the Lecturer. Great to know.

"I am impressed by those who have held down full time jobs, had children and studied for a degree all at the same time. Surely that shows great time management skills as well as dedication and drive to succeed."

Many of those attending Uni will be doing the same. I'm on an access course at the moment, half of us are older students with DC, jobs, parents to look after, homes to run...we will all be going to University in september with all these things still going on, and finding 40 hours to study on top... I am actually talking myself out of it now!

YABU. I'd rather see a certain amount of respect for education than the "reverence" which goes to dumbed-down celebrity culture most of the time.

It's just when I was a student I only worked part time and only had my Dad to look after 50% of the time so what I described seems so impressive to me.

Petisa, I don't think they are going to hate you! Most people will accept that at some point their child will be taught by an NQT, they will see an inexperienced doctor and that as a student they will sometimes be taught by postgrads. Their are pros and cons to a professional with limited experience.

The issue is when there is no balance - when a large proportion of the student's courses are led by a postgrad and the student's exposure to senior lecturers is very limited for whatever reason.

Exeter, York, Durum and Queen Mary have just joined RG.
As a non RG grad myself I can't say it has affected my life much.. however, in the current climate it is SEEN to give an edge in some areas.

My DD1 is at Peninsula medical school.. part of Exeter uni ..it was a joint Exeter/Plymouth affair but in future prospective med students will have to apply to each Uni separately..and I suspect Exeter will make higher entry demands on the basis of it's RG status.
DD2 is off to Nottingham ..also RG this year (results willing ) I honestly think that for professional..vocational degrees.. medicine, nursing etc it is pretty much irrelevant, but for 'pure' academic degrees.. I think having a (for example) English degree from Durham most definitely 'trumps' one from Wolverhampton.

As a parent trying to keep my kids fed and watered while at Uni, I just want them to get decent degrees that will enable them to find work at the end of it all.....

I had a crap childhood, went to a crap university, got a crap class in a crap degree. I am now executive staff of a global insurance company traveling the world and earning a great salary. Hard work but I love my job which makes it all quite easy. But there is clearly much more competition now... I was lucky to graduate in 1998. I dont envy young people today.

Sorry I went to a RG university. It has done absolutely nothing for me long term.

damn, I was sure Oxbridge weren't in RG.
Isn't the Sutton Trust another so-called list of "top Unis"?
Several Newspapers & Wiki compile league tables for the "best Unis" & best courses: best for undergrads often != best in terms of RAE & general reputation (same experience elsewhere in world, btw). Makes for contrasting reading, with some ex-polys coming out with the best ratings by students, for instance.

"How does your DH whittle down the cvs to the ones he wants to interview though mumbles? Not having a go, just curious, surely nobody has the time to interview all applicants?"

The applicants go through two layers of admin before they get to him, so it's q possible someone further down the line would have already chucked out the non RG applicants but his instructions to HR is to be open minded about paper qualifications and look at the person first. He reckons that often the ones with Firsts from Oxbridge are actually rubbish at leading and managing people because their emotional intelligence is poor.