to be a bit offended by a local MN section, women requesting to meet Asian women (only it seems)

[bitofcheese]

was looking through my local section and saw more than one post by women wanting to specifically meet up with other asian women. whilst i can understand why people like to stick to their own group as people tend to feel more comfortable with people they are more familiar with i can't help but feel like an outsider and a bit offended, i am not the only one, a few other people posted being a bit shocked. i like to meet all sorts of people, i don't care what their skin colour/nationality/religion is so to feel un-invited is a bit off really. imagine if someone had put a request to meet ie white english mothers, pretty awful really

Although I am not Asian I am a foreigner. I came to this country as a youngster and it was only at University that I met people from the 'old country' and unless you have gone through the same path you can't possibly understand the feelings. As Jessie said above, for the first time I didn't have to "play teacher/cultural ambassador".

To the OP - go and live in India, not with the expat community but with the locals. No doubt after a few years you will be yearning to seek out your own kind so that you can talk about Eastenders, Jeremy Kyle, the Daily Mail and who is going to get voted off Strictly Come Dancing :)

poosh - if you had read other posts of mine you would have read that these ladies posting all lived where i do or in local surrounding areas, all of which have a very high asian (pakistan/banladesh) community and thus they would be surrounded by women already with whom they already share a sense of identity, the posts were not in ie norfolk in which case i would totally agree with you. the thing with some of you, you either don't read the posts or only choose to see what you want to see and twist things to your own advantage. the pakistan etc community where i live do not seem to mix and reading the posts of requests to meet other Pakistan women in an area with already mostly women from the same background made me feel an outsider. i don't really see how that is hard to understand if not to agree with. you clearly don't agree but i don't see how that is hard to see from the other side of the fence. i am capable of seeing this thread from both sides, i have an open mind and am very much aware as to why these ladies feel more comfortable with company from similar/same backgrounds but where i live i see no evidence of mixing at all which i don't think creates a good shared community spirit

bitofcheese You didn't realise that there are white Asian people?? Do you not think that white people live in Asia? Do you also not think there are black English people? When I was living abroad I sought out English people but it wouldn't have mattered to me if they were white or black.

Of course, if were confusing culture with race (that was a good point Worra), perhaps the lonely mother, who's just moved to a new area, and wants to make friends, also wants to make sure no EDL members turn up on her doorstep in response to her ad and get offended that she didn't warn them.

Depending on where she lives, that could be a tangible risk.

OP - I've read more of your posts and I now see where you are coming from. I would like to apologise for my earlier 'judgy pants' comment. Here, have a bunch of

I still don't see anything wrong with the Asian mom wanting to meet other Asian moms in the same way that I see nothing wrong with single parent moms wanting to meet other single parent moms.

However, I accept that it is not unreasonable for you to raise the points that you did.

*we're

if you had read other posts of mine you would have read that these ladies posting all lived where i do or in local surrounding areas, all of which have a very high asian (pakistan/banladesh) community and thus they would be surrounded by women already with whom they already share a sense of identity

Well she obviously doesn't identify with or like these women...otherwise why would she be advertising to meet other Asian Mothers?

Maybe she's shy and would prefer to meet up with someone she's already swapped emails with and who she knows actually wants to meet her too?

hard - i have said in previous posts i don't set out to have any specific types of friends either. and no, i have never been to any asian countries so no, i didn't know there were white asian people. i haven't delved deep into this, don't intend to either. obviousl there are white people that go and live there, i am not going to start disecting this the way alot of MN's do and complicate things. i will ignore your comment about black english people, that is a pathetic patronising put down attempt. btw, the ladies posting the threads to which my thread refers, made reference to their culture in their responding comments

worra good point

cheese - I do understand what you mean actually.

But if I am honest I can see it from the other point of view as well as the majority of my friends are lesbian and i do prefer it that way. I wouldn't advertise just to meet other lesbian mums as friends, but if I am honest I would be more likely to make contact with someone advertising themself as a lesbian mum.

No that doesn't help integration and does make people more isolated within certain communities so I do see your points. But just being honest that I think actually I am the same.

big jessie - another good point although she could have dropped into her thread that she was from ie pakistan instead of requesting the company of other women only from such countries but worra has just made a good point which i have just read

actually, i really do understand it more now, it is understandable that these ladies posted their posts the way they did. i guess reading some of the posts on here it makes more sense of it and i was being over sensitive and taking it as a personal rejection which at first glance was easy to do. point taken

I think YABU in some ways, and not in others. Yes, it could be considered offensive to say you only want to meet Asian mums, but in my experience (as a Muslim/Asian woman) I have not always felt welcome at groups where I have been the only 'different' person there. I have been to a fair few groups (Surestart, Sing and Sign etc), I'm not very outgoing but will always chat to anyone who is friendly looking yet I would always be left feeling less welcome. On the other hand, there have been 1 or 2 mums who have made a bit of an effort and invited me to join them for coffee etc and I have appreciated that and taken them up on the offer.

My point is, that its easy to try and blame people for wanting to stay in their different groups, but I would like to see the majority reaching out more and being more approachable. Do those of you who are feeling offended ever bother speaking to the person that is a bit different or do you leave them to smile and look like they are enjoying themselves when they know they are not part of the crowd?

No, it is not awful/offensive/excluding to ask to meet similar culture/religion/geographical region/ethnicity. If she had specified colour, then yes - that would have been out of order.

Despite the area that you live in having a high Asian population, does not necessarily mean that the MNer finds it easy to approach them. As you say yourself, you feel like an outsider and would like to have Asian friends, but you have found them to be closed off. This isolation is not necessarily limited to the non-asian denomination but is also generally felt within Asian community. The reasons are quite complex. So why not go ahead and post in your local MN a bot about yourself and that you would like to meet someone Asian and see if anyone responds!

btw, to clarify I have friends of all cultures/colours. I suppose the point is, if you don't know anyone, you want to meet people who will accept you for who you really are, and some people feel they won't do that with someone from a different background to them.

cheese - I am always really impressed when someone changes their mind on aibu thread no matter what the subject - so well done.

I understand why the OP s upset or annoyed. Would you mumsnetters who disagree with her like to read an advert stating the person wants to meet white British people (and before anyone objects to the reference to colour, White British and Asian are both official discriptors of diffierent ethnic groups.

If we want to go down this exclusionary route, English people also have a specific shared cultural background which they may wish to discuss amongst themselves and share experiences, history etc.

You can't have the penny and the bun.

'i doubt these posters had white female friends', OP, you know this for a fact do you?

Perhaps they don't have any black friends, or chinese friends either.

Fool.....

Oh good grief!

Maybe the woman who posted the advert is a bit shy and doesn't know anyone in her area? Goodness me, plenty of women are like that. It's not offensive, it's ridiculous to be upset/annoyed by something like this.

Exactly what mirry2 said, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So would it be ok for me to post a message asking to only meet English people?

interesting posts buz & silver - i am quite shy and in the past when dd was young have naturally gravitated more towards the company of asian ladies just because for whatever reason i have enjoyed sitting at playgroups in the past and chatting with them as opposed to the other local women. where i live i don't really fit in as i am not 'typical' of the (english/white) locals although this was a fair few years ago when dd was younger and there wasn't such a large asian community then. i would go to the mother & toddler groups/etc and usually ended up making friends with asian ladies although the friendships never really adventured further than the venue, but i enjoyed their company & felt more at home. i remember (in answer to something silver said) that i would often make a point of saying hello to an asian lady who appeared to be on her own as at the time there weren't many asian ladies in the groups and i wanted her to feel comfortable, i myself knew what it felt like to be an outsider as it isn't very nice. silver - i am sorry that you have felt uncomfortable in the past, this makes me feel pretty grim actually reading your post even though i wasn't one of them making you feel like this, it makes miserable reading but i can sadly picture the scenarios of which you speak & am sorry. buz - i hear what you are saying. silver - i understand, it does make sense, that if you stay within your own safety area you avoid being hurt or having to explain yourself, i do understand

Oh for heaven's sake...

English people can meet up with just English people pretty much everywhere. It's called daily life in England. Even living in an immigrant magnet area, I would need to actively go out and try to socialize with non-English people or non-white people (and I mean actively socialize, not see them around town, or chat to them in shops or in the park). As a immigrant that passes as white, I'm still the only non-English person (and/or religious minority and/or not completely white person) in most social situations I find myself in and am still treated as a novelty pretty much everywhere I go. If you could give me a social situation where I could be "normal" for a brief time, alongside my standard social life filled with English anglo-saxons, I would bite your hand off. Everyone wants to feel normal, most people get to feel normal at some point regularly. I've personally given up on ever feeling normal around other people again (I can't even labour without playing the 'what are you' 20 questions fiasco).

I understand your point Derbys but you haven't answered the question. Would it be ok or not?

Well actualy Derby, it depends here you live. Where I live there are probably more non white english people than the other and it is very dffcult to break into their social lives. I do believe that non white british people are more exclusionary than white british. i would love to mix more but will always be an outsider. In my dds class there were far more asians than white british and no matter how I tried i could not break into their circle and my daughter and othr white friend were never invited to their social gatherings whereas they were always invited to parties given by the white british.