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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think dd's teacher was maybe over-reacting a tad?

622 replies

Northernlurker · 28/03/2012 18:15

Apparently dd has been 'very rude' today as per the message from teacher via after school club. Very rude consists of not listening to story but talking to friends and then saying 'no' when told to stop and 'no' when told to move. Now I agree this is very rude and the teacher obviously dealt with it at length because dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club. I have spoken to dd and she was talking because the book was one we have at home and she was telling her friends as much. At the end of a hot day, at the end of term her attention is shot to pieces as is that of most of the other kids. AIBU to think that a message home about this infraction was overkill. She didn't get a warning, she didn't get a timeout - and really what am i supposed to do about this? i speak to dd about her day every day. i am clear about what is expected but seeing as she's a stubborn 4 who has been at school less than a term i don't expect miracles. Frankly impressed we've got this far.

Or should I be grovelling tomorrow?

OP posts:
roodear · 28/03/2012 20:30

I agree with mathanxiety. A long hot day, end of term, new at school - er, a sparky 4 yo not coping well under these conditions would seem entirely normal to me. Of course it was rude (as you said yourself), but I'd expect a teacher to react more appropriately at that time of day, with more understanding and certainly to give a warning. Honestly I'd be tempted to ask the teacher whether they always expect 4yos to sit quietly and listen at the end of a long hot day, or whether they couldn't do something more age appropriate at this point. It never fails to amaze me what we expect of very small children in Britain. In many other countries they basically play until age 6 or 7 at kindergarten, then knuckle down and learn to read/write/listen within a term at school cos they're all ready for it. So no, I don't think you're being unreasonable.

OriginalJamie · 28/03/2012 20:35

The child said No to a teacher twice, math.

That's not on. I have rarely seen that rudeness in a child that age. When it happens, it has to be dealt with, for the sake of the whole class.

I think I would have felt as you do, as a mother. As someone who works in a school I see it a little differently.

soverylucky · 28/03/2012 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OriginalJamie · 28/03/2012 20:36

I mean I've rarely seen it said to a teacher ....

noblegiraffe · 28/03/2012 20:36

Blatant refusal to follow a teacher's instructions needs to be nipped firmly in the bud, no matter what the time of day and no matter how hot it is outside.

MrsBeakman · 28/03/2012 20:40

Sorry but i think that saying 'no' to a teacher when told to stop and 'no' when told to move is quite rude and I'm not surprised the teacher reported back as they need to nip it in the bud.

letseatgrandma · 28/03/2012 20:43

My dd is in reception. They always finish the day sat on the carpet listening to a story. It seems the perfect way to wind down at the end of the day - much like our bedtime story we have at home. A time for just listening and enjoying the story. I am at a loss to think what would be a better activity at the end of a long, hot day then to sit down nice and calmly and listen to a story.

Absolutely. In my experience, children love having a story listen to them and, particularly at the end of a long day, are more than happy to sit transfixed by a book.

KatyJ26 · 28/03/2012 20:43

You are being ridiculous- the teacher dealt with your daughters poor behaviour appropriately and then informed you. You should support the teacher and reinforce to your daughter that what she did was wrong.
You cannot excuse her behaviour because she is young ( no one in her class will be older than 5 - they are all young!)
You cannot excuse it because it was hot - all the children will have been hot.
You get the gist of where I'm going with this!
I was hot and tired at school today but I was not rude to any of my pupils!!!!

1950sHousewife · 28/03/2012 20:45

Ahahahahah.

I can't believe what I am reading about behaviour from a 4 year old. And to think I accepted all of this when i lived in England with my 4 year old DD.
I expected her to behave in class, do her homework (FFS) and to be advanced beyond her years.
Yes, the teacher was right to tell her off, but having her in tears?

Having a 4 year old DS who not only will start school at a far more sensible age 5 now where we live(with the option that I can also defer this for another year without him having to miss a year) but would be an absolute nightmare in a class where they have to sit still...phew.
It makes me realise that the UK are expecting way too much from 4 year olds.

LeeCoakley · 28/03/2012 20:47

Hang on. It says the child was in floods of tears after the after school club. It doesn't say the teacher reduced her to tears.

Dustinthewind · 28/03/2012 20:49

'dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club'
She was crying at the end of school.She was cross and upset and couldn't go home either. So all round, not a good ending.

PatTheHammer · 28/03/2012 20:49

I can see both sides of the discussion here but I guess it will be an opportunity to discuss 'appropriate responses' with your DD. I'm thinking that if the conversation could have gone like this:
'Northern DD could you stop talking please'
'OK miss, but I was just explaining that I had this book to my friend'
'That's great, can we talk about that in a moment'........

Maybe not, but it would have got a better response than a flat 'no' and she wouldn't have felt so hard done by?

I do sympathise with the hot and tired bit, I have a 5 year old DD who has been cross as anything everyday this week when I have picked her up.

As an aside I teach secondary (who clearly are much more able to understand stuff like this) but the MAIN rule that students know that they must not to disrespect at our school is that 'All reasonable requests from a member of staff must be carried out without argument'. It's just in the ethos of the school that they do not refuse. They often do discuss things with you (the unfairness of it for example!), but they never flat out refuse. Maybe it is just one thing that will help your DD in future if you both discuss why the teacher would have found the refusal rude?

PeppaIsBack · 28/03/2012 20:50

My issue here is that the child was still upset after the after school club which tells me that whatever the teacher said must have been quite 'strong' for her.

So yes she was not behaving properly. But I do wonder what the teacher has said to have such an impact.... That tells me that her reaction was inappropriate, especially if this is not a regular occurence and the child is just 4yo, starting a few months back.

As to what to do or tell to your dd. Nothing is the right answer. the teacher dealt with it. End of story.

As to what to say to the teacher... I wouold actually have a word with her, in non aggressive way. Just say that you have had her message and telling her that your dd was still upset about what happened several hours later. And then see what she says.

OriginalJamie · 28/03/2012 20:51

1950s

You seem to have a bit of an agenda. A story at the end of the end of the day is what we are talking about .

Cherriesarelovely · 28/03/2012 20:51

No OP don't grovel. It has been dealt with and you have been told. I take on board all that you have said about how young your DD is and how tired the children all are at this time of the term and it is understandable that tempers are a bit frayed. Your DD was quite rude but it is not the end of the world and if it was a one off i probably wouldn't have talked to a parent if this was a child in my class. I would be firm and dissapproving but assume that she was exhausted or under the weather. If it was a regular occurence I would speak to the parent or send a message.

noblegiraffe · 28/03/2012 20:51

I've made secondary kids cry through a mild telling off. Some kids cry when you tell them off, but that's no reason to allow them to behave badly.

And when a 12 year old cries because you take him out of a class and tell him that he is no more important than the 33 others in the class and therefore should shut up and let the rest of them learn, and you get the parents phoning in complaining about your 'harsh treatment' you realise exactly why they behave that way - the disrespect in class and the crying when being picked up on it.

PatTheHammer · 28/03/2012 20:52

Oh crap, just realised this is in AIBU......why don't I read things!

Original poster
Northernlurker · 28/03/2012 20:52

Hi

Thanks for all the views, it's great to get other people's opinions. I perhaps should have been clearer in my OP that I immediately spoke to dd and made it perfectly clear that this is NOT how she may consider behaving as well as finding out more about the situation. This is not my pfb btw - plb maybe Grin Even so I have always backed up the school with all my dcs and I've no intention of doing otherwise with this dc.

That doesn't mean I can't question things to myself as they arise. I've had two other dcs go through this school and always been happy with it but I have to say this term has disappointed me. The majority of children started in September and the teacher has made it quite clear she was unimpressed to have three joining in January. I had to point out yesterday that dd's birthday still isn't up on the board with the other children's. Her picture and those of the other January starters isn't on the 'Here is our class board' either. Now this is all small stuff but it adds up to a bit of a depressing picture. There's other stuff too, the classroom assistants NEVER talk to the kids when they come in in the morning. The teacher will talk to some if they address her directly. Now fair enough she may need to be catching parents about various things but surely that's a key time in the day to engage the kids?

Mathanxiety's posts are spot on with what bothers me about this situation. I don't think I'm making excuses for her, but I can explain why she behaved like this. I'm her mother, I know how she ticks and what her faults are - which is why if possible I try to engage her in doing what she should be doing without outright confrontation because it doesn't work very well with this child. Dd1 was always terrified of confrontation so complies, dd2 is naturally a peacemaker and gets on with anything you ask her to do, dd3 is my sister all over again and she needs to learn that she has to button it and get down to what she's supposed to do. I know that and we work really hard on that with her and I spoke to the teacher at length at Parents Evening about how she engages with things. So I guess I'm frustrated that this has happened and it's plainly a big deal for the teacher in some way. Her expectations of a four year old are different from mine.

OP posts:
skybluepearl · 28/03/2012 20:52

you don't need to do anything but back the school up.

a teacher has to expect the children to do as instructed. full stop.

your teacher expects better behaviour from your daughter. is she unreasonable to expect that?

Dustinthewind · 28/03/2012 20:53

The child is stubborn and probably didn't think she'd done anything wrong because she's used to being encouraged to talk and listened to at home, in a good way.
Small children are capable of having a huge sense of grievance that can last for hours if they feel resentful about something. So the reprimand might have been relatively small and short, but in her mind it has loomed as The Worst Thing That Has Ever Happened. Ever.

Cherriesarelovely · 28/03/2012 20:53

But Katy126 you are not 4 years old! That means that the DC in question has been alive for a mere 48 months! Crikey.

PatTheHammer · 28/03/2012 20:54

noblegiraffe- I have reduced a massive 15 year old lad to tears with a rather mild telling once and his mum did just that!

OriginalJamie · 28/03/2012 20:56

Northern - Do you mean the talking, or the rudeness?

I think the expectation re: the rudeness should be there. Unfortunately school is not like home. At school, the communal good is sometimes more important that the right of your child to express herself

Dustinthewind · 28/03/2012 20:56

'Her expectations of a four year old are different from mine.'
You might feel differently if you were managing 25 4 year olds.

MrsBeakman · 28/03/2012 20:56

She was probably upset at the end of after school club as she was knackered and overwrought. It's a long day for a 4 year old.