to think dd's teacher was maybe over-reacting a tad?

[Northernlurker]

Apparently dd has been 'very rude' today as per the message from teacher via after school club. Very rude consists of not listening to story but talking to friends and then saying 'no' when told to stop and 'no' when told to move. Now I agree this is very rude and the teacher obviously dealt with it at length because dd was in floods of tears when collected by after school club. I have spoken to dd and she was talking because the book was one we have at home and she was telling her friends as much. At the end of a hot day, at the end of term her attention is shot to pieces as is that of most of the other kids. AIBU to think that a message home about this infraction was overkill. She didn't get a warning, she didn't get a timeout - and really what am i supposed to do about this? i speak to dd about her day every day. i am clear about what is expected but seeing as she's a stubborn 4 who has been at school less than a term i don't expect miracles. Frankly impressed we've got this far.

Or should I be grovelling tomorrow?

molly!

maths - why have you tried to turn this into a thread about smacking?

Floggingmolly

I find that when people are talkings bollocks they try and change the terms of the debate to somehow to try and "win" the argument.

cricket - suspect she's got some serious intellectual jiggery-pockery up the sleeve comparing smacking to asking a child to stop talking, thus overriding child's wishes and upsetting child.

Oh and setting a bad example through behaviour

It wasnt anything revolutionary or new, mathanxiety, just a run of the mill story time.

....and story time is difficult to maintain with a child holding court with her neighbours and refusing to shut up (as well as being very annoying for the rest of the children who want to listen to the story).

Well I've just call DD down for her daily beating and can't reach DS becaue he is half way up a mountain in Wales, so will just have to make up for it when he gets back

How fair is that?hmm The quiet DC who always does as asked doesn't get to hold it-only as a bribe for those likely to play up

Many a time in teaching I saw the school reward system favour ill disciplined pupils who got merits, raffle tickets etc by the hundred for very short term compliant behaviour. The pupils who quietly behaved according to class expectations, day in, day out became very frustrated that their efforts got lost while teachers devoted rewards to the pupils who played up.

Cricketballs --

Several posters here have said that the value of reading a story uninterrupted trumps the value of avoiding upsetting a child by issuing a reprimand.

The logical conclusion to draw from the idea that a reprimand that leaves a child crying is ok as long as the class gets to hear the story is the idea that the end justifies the means.

If the end justifies the means and there are values higher than avoiding upset to individual children, what is to prevent us from smacking a child who will not co-operate and is preventing us from achieving the high value goal?

----> what do we think of smacking?

gafhyb - do you have a hidden crystal ball no one knows about....

agee ilovesooty

You also just don't know how hard a child is trying to be good. Just because they sit there quietly when it is expected of them, doesn't necessarily mean it comes easy to them.

Careful gafhyb, you won't get a sticker...

really, taking the piss out of a 4 year old. It may be a joke to some, but it's deadly serious to others

math - you do know no-one is actually advocating making children cry, don't you?

Ilovesooty, it is indeed a pity that the school you have seen was averse to catching children being good. That is why I liked the way the teachers I observed making a point of thanking all the students for co-operation and the way the children thanked each other. It greatly facilitated the aim of having the children internalise the lesson that they had a responsibility to create a positive learning environment for themselves and others, and that they were partners in school with the teacher.

Shock news announcement..........this is not a smacking thread.

yes, that happens in the school where I work. The excellent teacher I mentioned earlier, who has "made" children cry (possibly through shame at having disappointed her) really emphasises this.

... when I say "made", I mean once or twice

"The excellent teacher I mentioned earlier, who has "made" children cry (possibly through shame at having disappointed her) really emphasises this."

And it may well be that OP's DD may have cried because she knew what she had done that day would have disappointed her mother or her teacher or both, and nothing to do with a bullying teacher, we will never know!

exactly.

That is why I liked the way the teachers I observed making a point of thanking all the students for co-operation and the way the children thanked each other.

As the quiet DC I really couldn't stand that-it sounds very American. I always co operated-I was a very reasonable DC (and one who liked fairness) -why should we be thanking DCs for what they should be doing anyway?

I bet you would find, Maths, that the teacher's methods worked because she had already made the boundaries and they knew that being rude wasn't an option with her.I still think that had she left you alone with them,you could have used the same methods with very different results.

I think that had the teacher that you are quoting being able to add to the debate she would put you right on several things.
To me you seem to be set on favouring the disruptive DC by giving them special privileges and if they are quiet and amenable they miss out. I particularly dislike the 'holding the special box and getting a sticker'. I can't see it working if the teacher gives it to the well behaved DC. Sadly the badly behaved one will play up without the 'bribe' whereas the well behaved one will let the badly behaved one hold it without kicking up a fuss.
The sticker system always means that the badly behaved come out with masses of stickers for doing what they should be doing anyway and those who don't need bribing miss out.
I fail to see where smacking comes in. In fact I really should do what I intended to do earlier which is leave well alone. I have very little patience with such ill informed views. I am just pleased that my DCs had teachers who were firm but fair.

Quite possibly the DC in OP was simply tired! Tired DCs cry easily.