To think headteacher shouldn't tell children what time their bedtime is?

[Butterkist]

My dd's headteacher today told the school in assembly that their bedtime should be 7pm, 7.30pm at the latest.

Now my dd takes what the teachers (esp the HT) say as gospel, and I always try to ensure there is no conflict of messages between us and the school.

But my dd comes home from school at 5.45, requires dinner, needs to do music practice, reading and homework, and on a couple of evenings a week (including tonight) does out of school activities that finish at 7pm.

Bed time for us is 8.30pm, with lights off at 9pm, this is what works for us. My dd is up for school in time in the morning, and leaves home at 8.15.

Tonight she has missed her out of school activity as she's got to be in bed by 7pm for 7.30pm, so that she can answer correctly if the HT asks her tomorrow. This is her words. She suffers from anxiety and is a perfectionist so will only do the right thing.

AIBU to have a word tomorrow, and say that bedtime are the parents call not the school's?

HT probably thinks he's helping parents by encouraging DC to go to bed earlier, just like they think they are helping with children getting a healthy diet.

Unfortunately they only have DCs 6.5 hours a day, they don't have to get them up or put them to bed. They don't know what else they do or when their parents get in from work.

Later bed times suit some children and some families. Having fruit when she gets in from school suits DD2 better than taking it to school.

An apple in front of the TV gets eaten, an apple in her lunch box gets wasted because she wants to go and play.

We want our children to do their teachers biding and DD wants her healthy house points, but sometimes it would be lovely if school just stuck to teaching.

startail 'sometimes it would be lovely if school just stuck to teaching.'

And you know, schools would love to be able to do just that

I agree with others that her days do sound very busy and structured - I'm a great fan of DC having time to mooch around and find things with which to entertain themselves.

I would agree. There seems little time for this.

School say she is not anxious.

She obviously is, otherwise she would pay no attention at all.

but sometimes it would be lovely if school just stuck to teaching.

There lies the problem-they can't if they have over tired DCs.

The getting stressed at going to bed at 7.35 vs 7.30 would worry me, I am sorry to say. As I mentioned earlier, I have ASD nephew. I remember babysitting when he was about this age....and said I would pop back in 15 mins to check on him. I went downstairs put curry in the oven, and forgot the 15 mins.....when I went back up after say 30 mins, he had been watching the clock.....and was quite stressed about it.

If school say she's not anxious and that she should start another instrument, surely you should be correcting them? It is your decision. Has school not been involved in her referral at all?

It must be really difficult when you work full time to get the right balance with after school clubs. I think you are expecting way too much of her. Surely homework doesn't need to be done every night, mine read every night and then one night homework and possibly some at weekend. Music practice, every night is ridiculous. If she is staying up until those times she does not need TV time! My 11 year old comes home from a club on one night at 8 o clock, it's straight upstairs and in to bed.

personally i don't think it is bedtime that's important so much as the actual number of hours sleep a chid has - at that age should be 10-12 hrs
by the time we all get home it is well after 6, dinner isn't over til near 7.30 and then we ave homeworks followed by remaining family time. i would never dream of putting mine to bed as early as 7.30 as we would never see each other.
they go to bed at 9 and get up between 7.30 and 8 meaning a total of 10.5 to 11 hrs sleep. They sleep sound all night. I have friends who rigidly insist on a 7.30 bedtime but their kids are up several times through the night.
my kids are bright and fresh when they awake and do brilliantly at school. I have to say though that we don't really partake in much by the way of outside clubs etc so the time in the evenings is pretty much wind down time. my son goes to one after school club on a wednesday and one youth club session per week which finishes at 9pm but that is on a friday

personally i don't think it is bedtime that's important so much as the actual number of hours sleep a chid has - at that age should be 10-12 hrs
by the time we all get home it is well after 6, dinner isn't over til near 7.30 and then we ave homeworks followed by remaining family time. i would never dream of putting mine to bed as early as 7.30 as we would never see each other.
they go to bed at 9 and get up between 7.30 and 8 meaning a total of 10.5 to 11 hrs sleep. They sleep sound all night. I have friends who rigidly insist on a 7.30 bedtime but their kids are up several times through the night.
my kids are bright and fresh when they awake and do brilliantly at school. I have to say though that we don't really partake in much by the way of outside clubs etc so the time in the evenings is pretty much wind down time. my son goes to one after school club on a wednesday and one youth club session per week which finishes at 9pm but that is on a friday

Is the school a private school who can add more to the bill each time your dd takes up a new instrument?

I wish dd's school would encourage earlier bedtimes, the neighbours kids are up and keeping me up some nights.

I can see where the head is coming from. From someone who suffered with sleeping I can understand why the head might want the kids in bed around a certain time. But I think perhaps it should be mentioned in a parents newsletter - not directly to the children. Equally if a child usually goes to bed at 6.30 due to a condition or something, they might expect to stay up til 7.30. So it depends really a lot on the kids. I usually went to bed at 8 at that age and then 15 minutes later got my light turned off and winded down. But that was personally me and at 10, it changed to 9.00/9.30 and at 13 10/10.30 and from 15 onwards it was my choice as my parents knew I could make a decison consciously then. But I agree it should be something approached by the head to the parents not the children. But I also know that a lot of kids don't get enough sleep. So I can see it from both sides to be honest, OP.

butterkist - kudos to you for the way you have handled this thread.

About the bedtime, I think you need to see the bigger picture in that the HT is no doubt dealing with fallout of many overtired children. And 7/7.30pm is a sensible bedtime at that age.

Possibly he could have been more sensitive, but at school our children are subjected to other people's ideas and rules and learning to cope with this is all part of learning.

I can see why this has caused an issue for you but, as her mother, you have the opportunity to use this as a learning moment, to explain why the HT has said this and how all homes are different.

You may like to sit with her and arrange a "timetable" that she feels more comfortable with ie. one that factors in a 7.30pm bedtime once or twice a week. This may help her feel more empowered.

To be honest, she does sound very busy. I know she has chosen her activities but children don't know what's best for them, we have to guide them.

My dd was busy too, all with activities she had chosen/begged for and with after school club. But one day she said, "Mummy I do like my activities but I want some days without anything." Which, in hindsight, I can see I should have realised sooner.

Since then I have re-scheduled all of us to factor in plenty of home time so the children can waft about, chat about their days, play games, read, help with dinner etc. And the effect has been very positive for all of us. They are much calmer, and dd's progress at school has rocketed.

All the best with this and helping your dd with her anxiety.

Jeeze! I can't believe what a hard time you're getting OP. if it works for you and your DD, carry on as you were. All these amateur psychologists on here, who have never met you or your daughter, have no proof or knowledge that your routine is causing the anxiety. They're just kicking the boot in.
News flash! Some kids' idea of downtime is playing an instrument, reading a book or painting a picture. It doesn't have to be lolling around watching CBBC in your pjs!!

thecatinthehat

Your post is funny.

Have you read the thread?

If a child loves music, gym, art etc. And has tons of energy, never tired, goes to bed at midnight, never watches CBEEBIES, does three hours of homework at night, and thrives in every way, then fine.

But the OP's little girl is struggling!

Stress, anxiety, dyslexia, possible ASD.....

What the headteacher said is kind of beside the point. He / she just made a passing sensible comment about bedtimes. No biggie.

The only reason the OP is posting is because her particular daughter, with her anxiety and need to control, need to do the right thing and be able to go to school and say she did as asked, is really worried.

And to add to it. The reason she can't do what the head wanted (ie go to bed early) is because her schedule is manic.

Nobody is suggesting ALL children need three hours of CBEEBIES in pjs after school.

Agree your bedtime is late.
Teachers see a hell if a lot of tired kids.

YABU OP. HT's give out all kinds of good advice as a matter of course, and the fact that your child overreacts shouldn't mean they stop doing it. Children getting plenty of sleep is good advice.

Very sensible advice from both treadwarily and Greythorne.

What the headteacher said is kind of beside the point. He / she just made a passing sensible comment about bedtimes. No biggie

Exactly-I don't see why people should stop giving good advice. They will be doing healthy living as part of a topic in school and plenty of sleep will come fairly high.

It seems to me a time to re-evaluate her schedule and to try and work on her anxiety and her over reaction to the Head's words, not a time to go in and complain.

As a young child I used to sleep in on weekends. Not just a teen thing for me at all.

If I put my 7yo to bed at 7:30 regularly, he'd be bouncing off the walls (and more importantly on my bed) before 5am each morning. No thank you. DC just are not big sleepers.

Hope you sort out the anxiety OP. She'll have to somehow learn that not every adult instruction can or should be followed perfectly.

My dd who is 7 stopped doing the early morning waking regardless of bedtime toddler thing at 5 years old and will now sleep in late if she needs extra sleep.

MrsB - my DS has done the opposite - up to about 5 or 6 we never worried about weekend bedtimes, etc as he would basically sleep 12 hours from whenever he went to bed, come what may. Nowadays (aged 9) he will wake up before 8 at weekends no matter what time he went to bed - which makes it very difficult for us to let him stay up late (which he desperately wants to do).

Agree with most posters to cut down activities. Can I go back to the music question?

Three instruments is demented! I'm heavily involved in music education, and I think it's great that your child is so interested in music and that you are enthusiastic and committed. But even for the most overtly gifted musical child I would never ever suggest that they learn three instruments at once.

Please choose ONE instrument to master first (discuss with your child obviously). Ideally it should be either string (violin, cello, bass), piano or guitar as these are the most difficult instruments. But only ONE. Remember, the child is learning about musicianship generally as well as how to play a specific instrument. A student needs to be able to focus on a single instrument so that musical principles of pitch, rhythm, pulse and melody can be learned, as well as developing their ear and ability to sight read. You can always add a second instrument after a while (wait at least a year and a half). Otherwise you are setting her up to fail.

BTW, do all her music teachers know about each other? If they are good music teachers they should be very concerned - it makes no sense to her development as a musician and is hugely counterproductive. Sorry, OP, I don't mean to be harsh but please take this on board as you have done with such good grace so far.

I disagree with many posters who say "oh, cut out/down on music practise". If the child is having lessons they have to practise, very regularly - at least 5 days a week, preferably every day. At this age, instrument depending, it should be 15-20 minutes, which is not arduous. Also, would it not be possible to do this in the morning, rather than added in to everything at night? She might be fresher in the morning, and it is also an excellent start to the day.

My DS is your daughters age. No way would I let him do after school activities that finish at 7pm! At that point he is in his PJ's ready for milk and story before bedtime at 7.30pm.

Whilst I don't agree that the HT should be "telling" you what time to put your child to bed, I do think that he has some right in suggesting this as he will know how tired/unco-operative the kids are if they don't get sufficient sleep.

I know I don't work and so can do swimming at 4pm and beavers at 5pm. But I did used to work and I know that if I was working now then those activities would go by the wayside. I'm not sure kids need to do so many things after school at this age. Sorry, but I am more on the side of the HT than you, although I think his methods might be wrong!

Two points

1. I count after-school club as an 'afterschool activity'. My children have great fun there, do lots of physical games and races, craft stuff, play on scooters, build lego models, but much of it is structured and certainly supervised by childcare workers. And they have to behave nicely. In other words, it's like Brownies or sports club afterschool rather than lolling in front of the telly. I would not then take her to another activity after only finishing at 6pm, it's ridiculous!

1. The advice you have received from bowerbird is excellent, I am not a music teacher, but was going to say the same. She needs one instrument to get good at, learning to read music, and learn musicianship, before moving to another one. Why do three unless she is very musically gifted aged 7? And if she is, then focus on that, do at least 30 min a day, but drop the gym/homework every single night.

I think her schedule is exhausting, and my two do a lot of after-school club (out of necessity) and other activities. My two respond to overload by being naughty/whingeing/fighting between themselves, your daughter sounds like she responds by getting anxious and fixated on certain things (e.g. the 7pm bedtime). She is getting in a knot of perfectionism, where she has to do more and more things to a higher and higher standard. This does not usually end well speaks from personal experience

Newsflash to CatintheHat, the OP's daughter doesn't have time to read a book in the evening, or paint a picture. She's exhausted and over-tired and then can't sleep. This is not remotely about watching television.