To think headteacher shouldn't tell children what time their bedtime is?

[Butterkist]

My dd's headteacher today told the school in assembly that their bedtime should be 7pm, 7.30pm at the latest.

Now my dd takes what the teachers (esp the HT) say as gospel, and I always try to ensure there is no conflict of messages between us and the school.

But my dd comes home from school at 5.45, requires dinner, needs to do music practice, reading and homework, and on a couple of evenings a week (including tonight) does out of school activities that finish at 7pm.

Bed time for us is 8.30pm, with lights off at 9pm, this is what works for us. My dd is up for school in time in the morning, and leaves home at 8.15.

Tonight she has missed her out of school activity as she's got to be in bed by 7pm for 7.30pm, so that she can answer correctly if the HT asks her tomorrow. This is her words. She suffers from anxiety and is a perfectionist so will only do the right thing.

AIBU to have a word tomorrow, and say that bedtime are the parents call not the school's?

It doesn't matter if all her holidays are downtime- we're talking about her school days. Honestly. She's doing far too much. Children this age haven't got the judgement to know whether they should be doing all they want to do. And they pick up very quickly what pleases their grown ups. Because pleasing their grown ups is what little children most want to do in all the world.

By the way, what time did she go to sleep this evening?

In my experience children of that age do not sleep-in to catch up with missed sleep. Just like they don't say at 7pm - "actually mummy I'm rather tired, I think I'll head to bed.". She needs a set routine incorporating more rest and relaxation and probably more sleep.

Thanks. Just wanted to share a child's point of view-obviously it may be totally different to your situation but I just saw some similarities so thought it may be useful. I think the main point is just because I could do all of those things, it didn't necessarily mean that I had to do them. I do think that this kind of mindset does follow you through life though...I did a degree whilst having a full-time and a part-time job, even now I'm studying for another degree and a masters alongside a full-time job. I just feel weird if I'm not busy, but I have also had to learn to accept that I am not superwoman and be sensible about my life. I know it sounds like I'm doing loads now and have therefore not learned, but the time commitment is loads less than it used to be...I'm getting there! DH has taken over my mum's role and will frequently force me to have a lie-in at the weekend etc.!!

No all I was meaning was weekends are downtime no structure etc.

See maybe I have been thinking of this wrong but because ASC is childcare, it's not either our's or dd's choice it's just the way it is, due to work, she is only doing two activities out side of school a week.

Now that doesn't seem excessive to me - most kids I know will do min 2 a week e.g. brownies and swimming or ballet and gymnastics etc.

Yes she does play 3 instruments but the lessons are during school time, so its practice that's in free time, and as I've said practice time is not in free downtime at weekends, although the instruments are often heard within this time.

Sounds like a lot to be doing after a full day at school for any child let alone one with anxiety issues

Gosh OP you are getting a hard time. FWIW I know my older dd would have had trouble with that bedtime at 7 (when she had been to after-school club she was exhausted, she still needs to be in bed around 8 and she's 10yo now), whereas younger one seems to need far less sleep. Children are different. If she's happy doing three instruments then I don't see a problem.

Just to also mention, though, you say she only ticks the routine-obsessed part of the ASD checklist- have you considered that she's also demonstrated pretty clear literal/pedantic interpretation of language right here? Sometimes psychologists who don't specialise in high-functioning children or in girls miss these things. Though if it's not a problem to her socially then I am not sure diagnosis would help- older dd has 'autistic traits' but is functioning fine in school so doesn't need this as a diagnosis, for example.

She was in bed at 7.35 - yes we were 5 mins late, yes this did bother her, yes I did reassure her it didn't matter.

Lights were off at 7:35, she was still awake at 8:30, she was asleep by 8:50.

So fell asleep between 8:30-9 so normal time frame.

I have a highly energetic ever-ready bunny daughter, also 7. High IQ, dyslexic and a lot to do in the evenings (not so much structured activities, just a lot at home: Vision Therapy, reading, play etc) I struggle to get her settled with lights off by 8.30. But f we make 8 / 8.15 then she is generally better the following morning. 8.30 / 8.45 and it does make a difference.

Try an earlier bedtime for a week and see how she goes - maybe ask her how she feels at the end of it? TV close to bedtime also not good. Could you alternate the music practice? 3 instruments does seem a lot to fit in, along with everything else she is having to deal with.

And i do think it is reasonable for HT to comment on late bedtimes. In general, many children do not get as much sleep as they need.

My DD wont sleep in at weekends regardless of how late she goes to sleep. At this age I think they have an internal clock so don't take the fact that she doesnt sleep in to mean she doesnt need more sleep. Perhaps your DD doesn't need more sleep but definitely more downtime.

You daughter is active for a lot of hours int he day the poor kid is probably exhausted she is 7 does she really need to be so busy every day , , saying that the HT should not be telling her when its bedtime , maybe saying the importance of sleep but not what time , have you considered your dd may be so anxious because she has so much on in the week ,

You seem very determined that she should keep up her activities and instruments- and it does seem to me that you aren't really thinking about what the schedule's like from her point of view. She seems to have no free time at all during the week - don't we all need processing time?

What time did she go to sleep tonight?

I think it's common for tired children to still wake at their usual time - certainly IME, anyway. 'Sleeping in' only really develops with teenagers

From what I can ascertain, her popularity, and social skills (which I think can be blunt but don't seem to offend other children (yet)) are the main reason that she's not on the ASD checklist.

Oh dear, I think DD1 would have got the giggles.

From toddlerhood to about 9 she went to bed at 8pm gradually slipping to lights out at 8.30. Odd nights special TV let her (usually wildlife, history or top gear) let it slip to 9 as long as she went straight up after.

If you tried to send her to bed earlier, she wasn't tired and she just got really wound up and silly. Of course then she couldn't sleep.

Yes, but she is getting home from school/ASC and sometimes squeezing in another activity and if not, she still has reading, homework, music practise. The fact that this is too much is evidenced by the fact that she has to go to bed so late to accommodate it all.

If you just said that she doesn't need much sleep and so goes to bed at your established time then fair enough. But, you have said she is anxious and I have no doubt in my mind tat this is caused by your routine and her perception of the competitive educational environment that she seems to be in.

and yes little children dont do sleep catch up like others have said so they get over tired anxious and wound up , they can be on edge and this leads or can lead to anxiety , Kids IMO dont need to be so busy .

DS will never sleep in a weekends, even when he is visibly exhausted - he just gets grumpier. I have to force him to go to bed early, and he hates me for it at the time, but is a changed, and far happier child once rested.

OP - FWIW - my DC's HT did say something similar (based on the bedtime he enforces for Y3-4 boarders) and I was quite happy because I used it as a negotiating tool with my DC. Unfortunately this has now backfired on me because DS has now found out that Y5 boarders don't go to bed until 8:15pm which I think is too late for DS right now.

I expect the Head is fed up with tired DCs.

She does seem over anxious. I don't see that you need to talk to the Head, just tell your DD that different adults have different ideas and that the Head isn't going to ask individual DCs.

OP
Chances are the comment was not even aimed at your DD in the first place.

In my DDs class was a girl who did not have a bed time. She talked about TV that was on well after 10pm. WHEN she got sleep she was bright and clever. But most of the time she was grey faced.
School tried to drop the hint without singling her out
it did not work
other kids got more sleep - she did / does not

At this time I'm reluctant to drop gymnastics and art as she does enjoy them. And I wouldn't want to move them to the weekends, as that would be a tie for family time.

TBH if I was to drop anything it would be homework and reading as this is what she does in school time, and is heard being read every day.

Butterkist 'because ASC is childcare, it's not either our's or dd's choice it's just the way it is, due to work'

• I know exactly what you mean, but ASC is still a couple of hours tagged onto the end of the school day, even though it's not counted as an out-of-school activity. Could you maybe be wanting to compensate for the fact that she goes to ASC even though it's no-one's active 'choice'? - I'm not getting at you there, as my DC go to ASC through necessity, and it's not something that I feel entirely happy with, but bills must be paid etc etc.

I agree with others that her days do sound very busy and structured - I'm a great fan of DC having time to mooch around and find things with which to entertain themselves.

And sorry but I simply cannot understand her school wanting her to start a 4th instrument in September. Are they aware of her anxiety issues?

Butterkist - I think its great that you havent had a hissyfit about this thread. Your op was asking about the HT and bedtimes. Most posters are analysing your dds routine and you havent had a strop, kudos to you :o

I reiterate what I said either (and with your later posts you have confirmed) she is doing FAR TOO MUCH for a 7yo, heading for burnout/mental health breakdown.
All children need a period of time each day where they just 'be'.
Childhood should not be a competition or a race to try to be the most marvellous, the most excelling child - it should be full of fun and laughter with lots of seemingly pointless activity (mostly unorganised/unstructured).

I think a lot of what spg1983 says may be applicable to your dd.

School say she is not anxious.

Thanks for all the comments - 22:30 is now late enough for me otherwise I will be the one looking grey in the morning, so off to bed now.

I know you dont want her dropping anything but I do think she needs to relax and not have everything structured to much , Im not having a dig at you but if she is anxious then her activities could be stressing her and she sees it as work instead of fun , she has to do it right and get cross with herself if she doesnt then that builds anxiety
, she doesnt have to be active half a day sploged infront of a film or playing can relax her a bit ,