AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

It just makes them look more sad to be honest.

Apart from the last bit I'd say they've got it spot on.

I've never seen such anti male content on other websites as I have on here and general lazy sexist generalisations about males.

Yes (before someone points it out) there are many many 'anti female' posts and comments all over the internet too, but 2 rights don't make a wrong.

It's up to you what paper you chose to buy though so YANBU.

has anyone got a pic?

But Worra, thats kind of my point-there are sometimes lazy generalisations made, but they are always challenged.
There is no "party line" IYSWIM, which is what the ad is saying.

I only bought the 20 p one cos I needed change for the bus

No that's the thing I don't think they're always challenged...though perhaps more so lately.

And often when they are challenged, it causes and all out bun fight and a minority of hardcore posters to sit on a thread...sometimes for days on end just religiously man bashing until everyone else abandons it

I think perhaps to the 'outside world', that's what gets MN that sort of reputation.

As a male poster I am confused. Do F4J think I am engaging in self loathing or self denial?

Are there a tiny minority of posters who make sweeping generalisations about males? - yes.

Ate there plenty more who don't do this and tell them to stop being so blinkered and bigotted - yes.

Snort. Honestly look at all the vile misogynistic grimness on the internet and they focus on that. Pathetic.

I think MNHQ should talk to a lawyer, if the ad is saying that mumsnet as an organisation is what holds and promotes this view.

Self abuse maybe Compos?

It's what they believe, so let them get on with it.

Quote from ad:

"F4J are asking advertisers to suspend their advertising on MN until founder Justine Roberts adopts a zero tolerance policy to gender hatred."

I'm genuinely surprised worra that you think that description of mns is spot on. I actually think in rl a lot of women are actually pretty sexist about men and make broad sweeping generalisations e.g. about male nursery workers. I actually find those views less common in MN than rl.

I'm suprised at the independent running it actually. But what justHecate said.

I do disagree with worra though, I've never seen routine man-bashing. I've seen comments with statistical back up around DV etc but nothing that says 'all men are gits. so there'.

And really? F4J talking about gender hatred? Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

I really do think the first part is spot on lesley, though I think it's a minority of hardcore posters who get MN that sort of reputation.

It does come across a bit...hysterical Viva.

I don't recognise this as a description of mumsnet. Most of the talk section isn't about gender etc it's about problems and support. There is a bit of moaning about partners but that's about individual men and women not the entire gender.

Viva - I don't think thats true actually. I think some women might be put off coming on here because of the adverts. I also worry that perhaps women in abusive relationships who already post here, may have partners who spot this thread and forbid their wife/gf from coming back onto mumsnet. I doubt though advertisers will pay any notice whatsoever.

worra -I guess my point was that yes there are a few posters like that. But ime there are less here than in many other walks of life. So it seems strange to highlight MN for this.

It would be like saying MN is full of right wing tories. Yes there are some MNers who are...but less than in rl. So would be a strange thing to say about MNs.

Actually, I was put off MN for years because I thought it was all about problems with the Nanny, and Cath Kidston tea towels.
And ad like this would probably make me come on here to see what all the fuss was about.
Maybe Justine et al should be paying F4J for this free advertising!

To be honest, being poor mouthed by F4J is about the best endorsement I can think of.

Of the current top 50 threads only 4 have any male focus:

• would you be okay having a male midwife - scanned first page most ppl saying they'd be fine;
• how helpful is your DP - OP's isn't but most ppl on first page saying theirs are;
• OH reminding OP sheepishly to buy tampons - sweet and light hearted but maybe a little patronising; and
• sensitive Q about H - very tricky and serious thread about one specific man's actions towards OP with respondents saying their own DHs are respectful and kind.

This seems a typical selection so I think F4J as confusing the discussion of bad actions of a very small minority of men as universal man hating which it isn't at all. Saying an OP shouldn't be raped by her DH is not saying men are rapists!

I was once ground into the ground, practically, on the feminist board for daring to suggest that there still existed a lot of understated misandry in modern feminism. As per what Naomi touches upon in Fire with Fire.

So I do doubt Mumsnet is a hotbed of man haters.
Yes, they could be in denial, or hypocritical, but I doubt that too.

Calm down dears.

I would imagine that most advertisers have far more to gain from retaining links with MN than with F4J. On a numbers basis alone MN is much much bigger, most of the advertising is targeted towards women and children.

The advert speaks a thousand words about the hysterical ranting of F4J whilst forgeting that a huge number of women on here are mothers of sons, and as such are very unlikely to promote gender hatred. But are more likely to try to bring their sons up as respectful and caring partners (and the same for their daughters).