AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

oh, f4j are trying to force through censorship and restrict our freedom of speech on this site. from comments made by f4j members, it looks like they want f4j to have some sort of protected status where it's free from criticism and anyone who dares criticise it will be banned and their posts deleted.

judging by their fb page, they'll troll and harass anyone who says mean things about them, some lass on twitter got it recently, and a woman who runs a blog.

I think there are very few generalisations about men compared to comments about the behaviour of specific men.

case in point, this was just posted by a f4j member on the mn fb page in response to a comment that this was all just publicity seeking.

''Indeed it is. We are seeking attention to the subject matter not the organisation.. If people spent half the energy helping to lobby for change than they do bashing F4J on just ill-informed opinion then there would be no need for F4J - It would simply cease to exist - No one would be more happy about that than its own members.''

oh and thanks Tom Ball, I've taken a screen shot it in case you decide to delete your ill thought out admission of the goals behind this campaign, thanking you in extreme gratitude

more to gain from retaining links with MN than with F4J

Probably true, aside from fancy dress hire companies and maybe the manufacturers of pot noodles and Kleenex.

It is sort of true. This website is majority very anti men. It is funny to read people being outraged about sexism against women and the likes then in the next thread no one bats an eyelid at the same against men.

link to the ad here and here

This website is sooo not anti-men!
I read loads and loads of posts where women sing their man's praises, and say what a great father/husband/shag he is.
As a single woman, frankly, it makes me hurl.

Complain to the Advertising Standards Authority. Sounds like misrepresentation.

I've asked it before but never had an answer. Could someone give me some examples of what an 'anti-man' statement might be? Or even better a link to a thread where such statements are routinely made?

I've noticed that whilst MN is the home of many rational and balanced women, there are definitely a number who have their own anti-men agendas.

I don't really know much about F4J, what is generally seen to be the problem with them?

The majority of us are anti men?
What?!
I don't recognise this as a description of Mumsnet, however a majority are, I would say, anti "men being crap to women and children", that is a stance against behaviour not genders. As there are plenty of threads about crap SIL, MIL, best friends, whining teenagers...I think if we did a complete analysis of the site threads about 80% would turn out to have no gender based content at all.

Oh Em Gee Purple-the one I saw wasn't attacking M and S!(Just MN)

You can say what you like about Mumsnet, but go after Marks and Sparks and it's war F4J!

That's another thing I can't stand...the derogitory use of the word 'menz'

I'd never heard of it before I found MN

I think that's the sort of thing that looks as though MN has an undercurrent of anti males posts/posters.

Even the subtle way you'll often see people posting that they're close to their 'Mum'...but often if someone moans about their DH being close to their 'Mum'...that'll change to the word 'Mummy' in a sneery sort of way from a lot of posters.

Yes some of them do get challenged, but it still helps to create a bit of an anti male 'undertone' to any newbies/lurkers I think.

"This website is majority very anti men."

is it? Or is it just that, given we are mostly women, we are more likely to be complaining about a specific useless man in our life rather than a woman*? although we complain about MILs enough - they're women.

• although I do acknowledge that there are posters in same sex partnerships here too

Soupdragon you beat me too it, I was actually just pondering who gets a harder time on MN. Men or MILs

Knowing how nice and understanding women can be to each other sometimes it wouldn't surprise me if it was MILs

It is specific, always.
I go into Lone Parents sometimes, and obvs, theres a lot of Ex hating going on in there, and most of the Exs are men.
BUT, there are also a couple of male LPs and one I can think of in particular has an absolute waste of space Ex, and I would not hesitate to trash her equally for being a shit parent.
It just happens that because the majority of posters on here ARE straight women, the partners/Exs they are having problems with are male.

Agree exactly with DorisIsWaiting M&S would have far more to gain from supporting MN than it has from bowing down to F4J.

As far as I can see F4J comments are completely unfounded - MN isn't anti-male. In fact I see plenty of anti-female rubbish spouted on here!

Anyway, I read this thread because I buy the Independent - the ad isn't in todays - did they pull it?

It isn't anti men though.

It isn't anti 'great men who love you and treat you well'

It's anti 'men who beat you, men who rape you, men who walk away from you and won't pay for their children, men who insult you, men who control you, men who humiliate you...'

I'm happy to be anti that sort of man.

There's nothing wrong with being anti that sort of man.

The only man who would consider it to be wrong to be anti that sort of man is that sort of man.

There are many fantastic, wonderful, fabulous men out there - who love their kids, who are decent people, who are kind and funny, supportive and lovely.

Nobody is anti that sort of man!

What we are is a place that gives women hope that they don't have to be treated like crap. Don't have to be a punchbag. Have the right to say no to sex. Have the right to demand that the father of their children does not financially or emotionally abandon them.

Now, I don't think a decent man would have a problem with that.

Which leaves...

I read it today in the i - baby Independent paper.

It's in the 20p one Sweet Lily.

There probably is a default tendency to see issues from the women's rather than the mens point of view. But since the site is called Mumsnet I don't see that as an issue for anyone to get too aggrieved about. And we chaps are quite free to put in our 2p worth as we wish.

I post/skim many male-dominated forums on the internet (mostly geeky info type sites) and at times, threads can turn very sexist against women. I'd never claim that even the majority of them there really think that way, but there's always a few who feel big and brave because they're on the internet and can get away with it. They've had bad experiences with ex-wives or female co-workers or whatever, and they extrapolate their experiences to whatever the topic is at hand.

The opposite can happen from time to time here, as well, but it's far and few between, and almost always is challenged.

Suspect print newspapers are happy to have any advertisers to pay their bills, at this point!