AIBU to stop buyng The Independant because of this ad?

[NowThenWreck]

The one from Fathers4Justice, where they accuse MN of:

"carrying abusive and distressing anti-male content which promotes gender hatred against men and boys"
and, apparently, labels "men and boys as rapist, peados and wife beaters."

The ad has a lovely picture of a sad little boy with words like "rioter" and "homeless" and "sperm bank" written on his skin.

I am confused, as I have never come across a thread on here where people routinely call men paedophiles and rapists. In fact, usually, if someone implies that a man being left alone with a child is dodgy, posters will pile in and say "God, don't you know not all men are paedos.?"

As I understand it, this is a forum for discussion, not a political movement with a manifesto. There are many and varied opinions on MN, and the minute one opinion is aired, another will be along to refute it.

Or should I just laugh at F4J? The ad is quite gruesomely funny.

Vile advertising. Independent should be ashamed of printing it.

Thanks OP - shop didn't have any cheap ones!

Great post Hecate - I think that sums it up really well.

I just had a look at their FB page and OMG. Some of the comments! They're talking about this thread and someone's mentioned Boysarelikedogs username as 'evidence' of us being anti-male

I've always read that as boys are loyal, loving etc whilst girls are like cats - more independent! NOT as an anti-male statement. It was used in 'The Little House' as the reason why she loved her son more than her daughter!

JustHectate whilst I generally agree with you. I don't think that this distinction doesn't always hold true.

There are plenty of decent men out there but they tend to not be entirely perfect. So when their wives/ partners post things about their faults they can easily become lumped into the undesirable male pile. Whether this happens or not seems to depend on who posts first, as there are also plenty of women prepared to stick up for the man, and in AIBU at least there is a tendancy towards slightly sheeplike behaviour at times.

Is anyone else concerned that they have photographed a young child and written such abusive words so that they appear to be on his body? Also the fact that this innocent child has no idea he is being used in this way. Who in the hell would allow their child to be used for this advert ffs.

Yes there are some people who actually think its not sexism to generalise men but you can't judge a whole by a few. There have been many posts where a woman has been generalised for their behaviour or way of dressing but I don't see them complaining and using a child in the way f4j are using this baby. Sexism does work both ways but mumsnet has a specific place for dads who want to talk to other dads to chat and men are just as welcome and able to post in other subjects as well.
My dp and I have a friend who's not been allowed to see his dd which is atrocious but he has always acted in a responsible way about the situation. Another friends dd doesn't want to see her father or have any contact because he was emotionally and mentally abusive but a court has ordered that she receive letters from him. He doesn't even deserve that with some of the things he has done but the friend who would love to see hisdd and would make an excellent dad can't win
Maybe if f4j explained their outlook in a manner which was sensible(ie no costumes or foolish stunts) they would get support. Also if they made clear their stance on abusive PARENTS and how to protect children involved people would respect their opinions. I have seen some of the things they put out and so far have been unimpressed that they seem to want abusive parents to have same rights as good parents this is not a stance any right minded person can support

Okay so saying 'the menz' is considered anti-man is it? And just generally being a bit sneery about a DH who pisses the OP off because she doesn't get on with the MIL? I'm not seeing a rabidly anti-man agenda in that I have to say.

I hear anti-man stuff all the time in RL and its rarely challenged ime. Whereas on here if I was to post that "men just dont see dirt the way we do" which I would say is actually a pretty man-hatery thing to say I would be flamed by the majority of posters.

What the flying fuck are they on about ?

I agree with dolly that I hear more anti men stuff in rl than I do here. I think even adverts e.g. about cleaning products, are often more anti-men than posters are on here.

God that's appallling. Write to the Independent - I know they're strapped for cash but including an advert like this is just inexcusable.

Quite Lesley. How many threads do you see on here where women are encouraged to let their partners do more with the kids or to trust them more with the childrens' wellbeing? The posters on here I would say are more open to the idea of shared parenting than many in rl. Just the other day I saw an OP challenged over her description of her children as 'mine' not 'ours', by several posters.

Okay so saying 'the menz' is considered anti-man is it? And just generally being a bit sneery about a DH who pisses the OP off because she doesn't get on with the MIL? I'm not seeing a rabidly anti-man agenda in that I have to say

And that wasn't an example of one

I clearly mentioned an 'undertone' in my post...not a rabidly anti-man agenda.

It might help if we avoid twisting the posts on this thread...especially since it seems to be the subject of a Facebook discussion.

Hmmm I have seen the odd anti boy comments on threads(1 quite nasty who was rounded on by the rest of the thread)and several stereotypical posts re men never doing their fair share at home etc however I don't think it's widespread,the majority view or promoted by MN.

I speak as a mum of boys with a very unstereotypical hands on dp so I do notice this type of thing when it crops up.

I do think perhaps it needs being kept an eye on though particularly in some of the feminist threads.

The add is seriously ott though imvho and I'm surprised at the Independent.

I hadn't realised this thread was the subject of a facebook discussion? Is that on F4J facebook page worra or somewhere else?

im not a man hater well theres afew that do , but since it says mumsnet chances are majority of posters are female .and instead of maoning to rl friends we tend to moan on here

Im waiting for the cmapaign about were alway mean to mil`s

To those fathers reading this the Boysarelikedogs name is I think due to those of us who recognise that boys need to get outside-a lot.

People in RL and on here have acknowledged that boys often need to be walked like dogs daily to let off steam(mum of twin boys so I speak from experience).I think even Steve Biddulph would agree with that

they claim in one of those ads that all men and boys are labelled as rapists, wife beaters and paedophiles on here. That's blatantly untrue. As a member of this site and mother of boys I find that incredibly offensive.

we should start our own poster campaign

YOU CAN TAKE OUR ADVERTISERS, BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!

for maximum effect we'll need to dress up in kilts and paint our faces blue, for the accompanying photo. Or just use a photo of Mel Gibson in Braveheart.

Lesley see SweetLily's post at 13:32:26...it seems to be their FB page.

Do a GF on them Justine.

They are throwing a wobbler because some of their members invaded the feminism section and posted some views that were disagreed with.

Poor old MN they don't need this shit do they.

Applauds justhecate

Just the post I was about to make!

Although I can't imagine they think much of the "I believe you" campaign either.

I agree with JustHecate's post.

In fact, I often see on relationships threads (not necessarily on the Relationships board) that an OP will ask a question about something her OH has said or done, and posters tell her that she is being over-sensitive/over-reacting and he is just "being a man and can't help it" or similar, and people will pile in to say "no, actually, it's not because he's a man. It is because this particular man is not very nice, plenty of men manage to not behave like this". Ironically, given the focus of F4J's ire, those posters in the second group are usually FWR regulars.