To think that smacking a child is the same as smacking an adult

[Elderberries]

If I came on here and said I had lost it with my partner and got so angry that I had slapped him a couple of times people would say (and rightly so) that I was way out of line and should do something about my temper ect....they would probably be even more outraged if I said I had hit my wife.

If I come on here and say I lost my temper and slapped my child I think I would get a different reaction. Am I being unreasonable to think that actually hitting a child is domestic violence? If it's not OK for your partner why would be it OK to chastise a child in this way. Is it because they are small and helpless and have no representation? Wasn't that the position of women not so very long ago when a husband had every right to hit his wife.

I'm saying this because I did get angry last night and slapped my 2.5 year old on the leg and I feel terrible. I've never done it before and I am against it in principle. I just lost control because he wouldn't stay still when I was trying to change a very very soiled nappy and I didn't want it to get everywhere.

I do think it is domestic abuse. I do think it is wrong. I am never going to do that again. Never. Go on tell me I'm wrong.

For God's sake, it's not complicated. We don't hit each other. Not "We don't hit each other apart from when I hit you because I work long hours and haven't got time to talk about it with you / because children need boundaries / because there are no manners in society today / because we have a 'me me me' society / whatever other lame excuse".

We don't hit each other. And hitting someone who is a fraction of your weight and height, someone who is vulnerable and who trusts you - and whom you are trying to teach that hitting is wrong...? Try and justify it all you like, it's wrong and it's lazy, and you are trying to control their behaviour through threats and fear ("Don't do that or I'll hit you") rather than helping them to understand why the behaviour is wrong.

The arguments that society is in decline and that children have no manners blah blah blah - or that smacking is better than sarcasm and shouting - don't hold up. One has nothing to do with the other. You can teach your children manners and respect without hitting them, and not hitting them doesn't have to mean resorting to sarcasm and shouting instead.

I have two boys, 3 and 7 and of course I lose patience with them sometimes. But I have never hit either of them, I talk to them respectfully and I listen to them. I'm conscious of how I talk to them too - I have no interest in discipling my children through fear, humiliation or sarcasm. When I handle something wrongly, I always apologise afterwards without making excuses.

They are polite and respectful and well-mannered, which is very important to me. Of course they're naughty sometimes, but if I tell them to go and sit on their beds for a time out, they go and they stay there until I say it's over. Having well-behaved, respectful children is not the preserve of those who hit them.

Hitting teaches nothing about behaving sociably or with manners, or why we expect certain behaviour. It just shocks and scares a child into submission.

It is easier than using reasonable methods of disciplining, logical consequences etc.

Lazy and bullying.

Before I had kids I had a huge argument with a man who claimed that I'd I had 2 boys like him I would change my tune. Well I have 3 now. They can be challenging but I would rather spend 10 times as long on discipline and reasoning than resorting to violence.

It is abuse. The last resort thing is nonsense How many others have you tried? Generally when parents smack children it is a knee jerk off the cuff reaction not something they do consciously after trying a few other methods. Or maybe it is planned and pre meditated which is even worse. There is nothing to be gained by teaching little ones that you can get someone to co operate by hitting them. If it works then you should only have to smack once. You do not have that level of power over another persons body and soul let's face it, just because you are their parent. these threads are always just a raft of excuses for the indefensible

I posted about this a few weeks ago and I agree with you OP.

I found myself telling my dc that if Daddy ever hit me (he wouldn't by the way, it was part of a bigger discussion!) I would leave him.

Then they asked if Daddy hit them would I leave him? I paused and said 'Errmm, well, it's different'. WTF??

I then had a big conversation with them afterwards because I thought my answer to them to was utterly wrong and utterly shite.

I also think it's really sad that you admit you smacked, MrsCrafty, because you had no patience and were tired. That reasoning has very little to say about any benefit to your children, and everything about being easier for you.

If you have no patience you need to address that, not take it out on little children.

I missed out the most important part about positive discipline, which is showing children you respect them by spending time with them, praising them and not hitting them

What a sad thread to read. I cannot believe any parent would ever justify using violence against a child, dressing it up in weasel-words and saying it's for discipline. It's not about having boring conversations with toddlers, it's about communicating with them in a positive way and enforcing positive behaviours.

I also agree with the PP who said the decline in standards of behaviour in society are all to do with the 'me, me' culture and lazy, undisciplined parenting and nothing to do with parents who enforce positive parenting.

Well I felt pretty bad this morning when ds came in for his morning cuddle with me and dh and he piped up 'mum hit ' and dh said 'No mummy doesn't hit '. It's not something he is forgetting. In my defense it wasn't very hard.

I'm feeling a fair bit of guilt.

Smacking is hitting yes - but those who say we use the term smacking because it sounds better miss the point that it better describes the situation than just saying hitting. Hitting could mean anything from a tap to a punch to using an iron bar! A smack is a specific kind of hit with an open hand. We all know it's hitting - but that doesn't mean we don't agree with it. ( although I don't).
As for my stance - I have hit my DD. She bit me during a temper hard enough to make me bleed. My arm just automatically smacked her bottom. For those saying would you hit an adult - well if they bit me - yes I would! If my DH bit me and I slapped him I don't think many people would say that was wrong. I don't smack as a form of discipline but I don't think you can always say that it is different from hitting an adult and therefore wrong.

Agree with dragonwoman.

It's a different term for a reason - a parallel example, a kiss could mean a snog or a peck.

Haven't read the wole thread but shocked so far by how many fok think it's ok to hit a child.

IMO it is nothing short of bullying. Generally we stop sghort of hitting other adults, even when we feel like it for one of 2 reasons:

1. We beliveve it is wrong for one person to hit another or

2> We believe if we do it, then we are likely to be hit right back.

A childs is not a physical risk to us and therefore if we choose to hit a child where we would not hit an adult, then it is simply bullying!!

End of!

Dragonwoman I also see your point about the terminology. However I also think people disassociate smacking from hitting and that normalises the behaviour.

It does sound like slapped your daughter in self defence automatically which I don't think is the same.

What about if we hit a child in a situation where we WOULD hit an adult? These situations do exist. If an adult hit me I would retaliate if I was able.

I would push or slap a child away if they were about to cause me harm....same as an adult.

See I do think it's acceptable to smack a child who is physically violent to me. Even quite a small child can hurt you with a bite or a kick in the face for example. A smack in those circumstances brings it home to them that physical violence hurts - which is something that an adult or an older child knows but a little one may not make that connection unless it is experienced at the time of their offence. It is also for me an automatic reaction to a child hurting me. I am talking a fairly severe hurt here not just a child batting at me.

If you hit with hostile intent, whether a child or an adult, you face an assault charge. The "reasonable chastisement" defence fails (CPS have issued guidance on this).

The intent is important in law, which is another reason why the underlying linguistic issues (ie that smacking is not a synonym for hitting or for violence) should not be manipulated,

But what is extremely naughty? How do you know what deserves(?) a smack and what doesn't and how can you tell it was effective. I think the word smacking is used to soften the blow pardon the pun!

as adults we all occasinally do something that we should not do, what if we were slapped for that would we think well that is ok i did wrong i doubt it, wouldn't we feel hurt and shame, anger, humiliation or well i did wrong shall not do it again. you can argue well as adults we can make choices and children can not but you do not choose how they feel that comes from them

and for 70's the children that you feel have a lack of respect for adults often have why becasue they have been shown it themselves do you really think these children have never received a smack

if my child was trying to bite/kick/hit me i would (and have) restrain him. for me this means holding him tight to my body, my arms accross his and if he was kicking i would bring him down to the floor til he has calmed down. i think i have had to do this twice in his life and he is almost 7. one of the times i was holding his baby brother and i was able to hold ds1 at arms lentgh until i put ds2 in his playpen. i would never think of hurting him to prevent him hurting me. this isn't caveman times where it was eat or be eaten. with a child as young as we are talking about here it is perfectly possible to prevent yourself being hurt without hurting your child.

also, i was assaulted last year. it was the during a verbal altercation with a family member. this person, no doubt felt i was in the wrong and deserved it, (as many parents do to justify smacking). did it teach me never to disagree with anyone again? no. i feel a massive sense of injustice. i did not deserve to be hurt. i feel humiliated, i feel anger at that person. i think these are all normal feelings following something like this and i have no doubt that children feel them aswell. the only lesson i learnt was to stay away from that person.

Children are not adults and we accept that it is fine to treat them in ways we wouldn't treat adults, everyday. For example I would never dictate to my DP or friends that no they can't have sweets for lunch, that they must have real food. I would never say to adults no you can't wear your swimming costume out in the snow with no coat. Or you will be going to nursery, or you can't watch 10 more minutes of tv, or you will go to bed now.

Fine if you think smacking is wrong. But I think comparing it to how we treat adults is the wrong comparison as we accept everyday that we have the right to dictate things to children that we would never dictate to adults.
So for that reason YABU.

i was pointing out that you can not decide how a child feels when they have been smacked, you can decide what they do and do not do but how they feel is down to them so as an adult you can not decide if they feel hurt, humiliated after they have been smacked it is out of our control

i think we are on the same page freudian, i wasn't posting to argue your point. i was posting my experience to back it up.

Ha! I WAS restraining DD when she bit me. Thats why she bit me - because I was restraining her to stop her kicking me and banging her head repeatedly against the wall. I was struggling to do so and she managed to partially escape and bite me on the leg. It drew blood even tho I was wearing jeans and was excruciatingly painful and she wasn't letting go! I suppose I could have held her nose but I just needed her to let go immediately and when I smacked her bottom she did. And has never bitten since. She was about 3 at the time. DC3 is also a biter but experience has enabled me to recognise the signs and avoid the attack.

Remind me never to pop round to yours for a cuppa (without shin pads), Dragonwoman

I think Lesley makes a very good argument. That said smacking still feels very very wrong to me.