To think that smacking a child is the same as smacking an adult

[Elderberries]

If I came on here and said I had lost it with my partner and got so angry that I had slapped him a couple of times people would say (and rightly so) that I was way out of line and should do something about my temper ect....they would probably be even more outraged if I said I had hit my wife.

If I come on here and say I lost my temper and slapped my child I think I would get a different reaction. Am I being unreasonable to think that actually hitting a child is domestic violence? If it's not OK for your partner why would be it OK to chastise a child in this way. Is it because they are small and helpless and have no representation? Wasn't that the position of women not so very long ago when a husband had every right to hit his wife.

I'm saying this because I did get angry last night and slapped my 2.5 year old on the leg and I feel terrible. I've never done it before and I am against it in principle. I just lost control because he wouldn't stay still when I was trying to change a very very soiled nappy and I didn't want it to get everywhere.

I do think it is domestic abuse. I do think it is wrong. I am never going to do that again. Never. Go on tell me I'm wrong.

"there wasn't time to shout or pull him. I could see it all about to hit the fan. I grabbed DS, gave him a single smack. "

i dont understand. it doesn't make sense. if there wasn't time to shout or pull him, how was there time to grab him for a smack? if there wwas time to grab him, there was time to pull him, grabbing him IS pulling him. surely just grabbing him and keeping him there would have sufficed to prevent the man being knocked over? the smack wasn't necessary to prevent that happening.

Yes, I wondered that

YABU.
Kids can hit back, they do have forms of retaliation. They can hurt too, if they put some welly into it.
It's not as simple as saying it's domestic violence.
Minor physical punishment as a parenting technique is age-old, and animals do it with each other constantly. Especially parent animals. Not out of anger, but as a simple effective means of admonishment.
No point in smacking if it doesn't work, though.

YANBU I have always thought that too OP.

animals will also kill their own young should they be deformed or weak in any way

we are not animals our social and emotional needs are far greater. our life is not jsut about survival and we have no predators after us or need to hunt for food

YANBU OP.
Despite smacking my daughter on one occasion, I now feel very strongly about this.
Smacked DD2 when she was 3 after being naughty (cant remember what now) - after I had done it, she was absolutely heartbroken and would barely come near me for a day or 2.
After I did it I deeply regretted it, and still do to this day. It makes me feel sick that I would ever want to intentionally hurt my own child. Although it has made me realize how strongly I feel about it now.
I also overheard DD2 say to another DD 'If you do that one more time, you will have a smack' - of course I told her that we never do that, but really - how could I tell her that it is 'wrong' if I did it to her?

Also think its a load of crap when people say that smacking on occasion is okay, and they 'wont remember it'. What other things can we do to our children and justify it, just because they 'wont remember' ?

YANBU

Totally agree with you op. My mother used to beat seven bells out of me, thwacks round the face and head, "don't flinch" and more whacks, sometimes hard punching, if I tried to get away or reacted. Very violent and uncontrolled. Bloody horrible. And it was because she felt bad about something, or herself, I can now see. Not really anything to do with me or my bad behaviour.

It taught me to feel inferior and to hate myself. Who wants to give that message to their children?

I am not a perfect parent or anything like it. I don't even want to judge people who gives taps on the hand, or whatever, though I don't see the point. Time out on the naughty step or taking a much loved toy or treat away for a bit seemed a better option. And I do get cross and shout, which is not great either.

I try to always say sorry if I think I have been unfair, and tell my kids I love them regularly. You would have to ask my kids if I am a good enough parent. They are teenagers so they probably think I am crap!

Being hit like that has caused me long term problems, and I think it has made me seek out very rejecting people to have relationships with, to try and heal that situation, as I could never please my angry mother. She's dead now, and I never dared ask her about her behaviour. My relationship with my father was not great either. And of course he stood by and didn't stop this hitting.

I haven't read the whole thread but I do agree with you OP. That kind of violence towards children is often to do with the parents problems and it passes them on to the next generation. To try and not pass that on is a small step, but a good one, I think.

I'm sorry about what happened to you myfriendflicka. That sounds fairly serious. But you tried to be the better parent.

My father used to lose his temper with my brother. He was such a mild man for 99 % of the time but my brother was very very hard work. When he did finally get angry he got too angry and I remember everybody else being so scared. I wondered why mother didn't intervene.

I was a very obedient girl and I was only ever smacked once and I remember that it was the loss of dignity and a feeling of shame that stuck with me.

Smacking my son last night didn't work by the way, he is stubborn and kept going but he hid his face from me. Then afterwards, he was upset for a long time and kept asking me to come back to his bedroom to put the duvet over his bear and give him another cuddle. So it didn't work as a 'full stop' to his behaviour but it did cause emotional distress

Michaelas - although I really still do think that smacking is not the answer I have never been in the position you are in so I can't judge you for the choices you are making. I can see that different personalities of children may need different approaches. However seeing how my parents dealt with my brother made me think that it just didn't work.

With my son if I try and battle with him he becomes more stubborn if I distract or reason with him things become much easier.

I do not agree with smacking at all but smacking a child with SN as part of your 'repertoire for dealing with their behaviour' seems even worse to me, your child could have sensory issues/ASD and be reactingto things in environment which scare or hurt them with seemingly aggressive behaviour..smacking them for this is shocking IMO. And Dd has severe autism

Iam

the DS nearly bumping into someone situation
(IIRC it was about 3 years ago)
I'd taken DC into town, school holidays, just to get out of the house.
They were both being really silly as kids do, you know when it's going to end with one of them in tears because their silliness has meant one gets hurt.
They were hurrying into a shop they wanted to go into. I'd told them umteem times slow down, watch where you're going.

If I'd shouted to him, he'd have ignored me. If I'd grabbed his arm or his top, I know my DS would've twisted away, thinking I was playing.
I made a split second decision- to stop my DS in his tracks, to put an end to his behaviour right now and to prevent an accident.
The elderly man did not end up on the floor.
My DS stopped what he was doing, realised what his stupid actions could've done.

I had less than a second to do it.
I think my son with a smack and a bit of humiliation was far better than an old man in A&E.

No-one questioned me. I'd have told them to mind their own if they did. I wasn't out of control. I'm not a fish wife.

They are my DC. My job is to bring them up as decent people, which they are.

I have posted on this subject before. I feel that smacking when children are very young is ok. I have done this.

What I feel is wrong is that parents such as I have to spend time talking to a very young child whilst getting bored whilst the child is also getting bored.

I have no patience and work very long hours. I would rather do the short sharp slap thing than waste both my time and my childs, letting them know that it's wrong. It's only my opinion but I would rather do the short sharp smack than the overly long boring stuff.

My children are now 5 & 9 and I am now finding that sending to their rooms is quite good too. I wouldn't dream of smacking them now.

To think that smacking a child is the same as smacking an adult
its not the same, its worse. The child is more vulnerable, less able to retaliate on equal footing than an adult.

There may be a few instances like 70isALimits where its the lesser of two evils, but in general there are better ways.

It's only my opinion but I would rather do the short sharp smack than the overly long boring stuff.

false dichotomy. You can do a short sharp verbal reprimand.

Yes, how awful, I felt it very bleeding tiresome too.

I bet if you met my kids you would find them mischievious and naughty now but definitely respectful.

I like kids that have manners and self respect for themselves too. They might not be the cowed children that flinch as you probably want them to be.

"I like kids that have manners and self respect for themselves too."

how can you expect children to respect themselves when you aren't showing them enough respect to take the time to talk to them, instead just being lazy and smacking them? you don't respect their right to not be hit so how can you expect them to respect themselves?

Yes I can think of parents who's DCs would not have tried it on anything like as badly if they'd been given the very occasional slap.

May be there is a better way of saying you have gone far too far to a two to four year old.
You can't simply put them in their cots for a couple of minutes any more and complex punishments are simply go over their heads.

I read lots of comments against smacking, but can anyone actually suggest a working alternative.

As far as I can see not smacking risks living with an awful lot of silliness until DCs get to 6 or 7 and hopefully develop some self control.

Oh and be warned if you were to ever meet them my two are defiantly not quiet and repressed. Spirited, strong willed and, each in their own way, very determined.

I'm going to come across as all Daily Mail but what the Hell.

I've seen a huge decline in childrens' manners in the past 20 odd years.

I know how I behaved at school. (and at home) and in the company of strangers.
Schools deciplined children.Parents did too.

I know how children (and young adults) behave now.
You can't put it down to any one thing.
And I'm not going to say "Oh it's poverty/unemployment/kids having kids/wrong food/not enough exercise/too much telly/Call of Duty..."

But I know it's mad that at 45 yo I actually worry if I get on a bus with school children.Or youths hanging about in town centre car parks.

DIDN'T USED TO BE LIKE THAT?
WHAT'S Changed?

I smacked my son once out of sheer rage. It was me that lost control and I never did it again.
DV between adults is a total no no, so why the fuck would you do it to a child.
As for the many people that say, I was smacked and it didn't do me any harm, well times have changed, and it did do much harm to children in abusive families.
Just don't do it, there are so many ways to discipline a child these days, it's totally unnecessary.

Stopping your wife from going out with her friends when she did something bad would be abuse, so you guys don't all do that to your kids, obviously. Or the naughty step, which would be humiliating. Or telling them off a lot, obviously you have to reason with your 4 year old like an adult, like they're clearly capable of.

YOU ARE ALL BEING UNREASONABLE AND PRECIOUS. Smacking and beating are two different things, I received both in childhood. Beating is atrocious, it's over the top. Smacking is justified. Apparently some of you are still under the illusion that you can reason with a young child - usually the parents who don't realise how poorly behaving their children are.

Mrs Crafty - I agree that talking the pants off a young child is ineffectual, and I tried not to do it. As an alternative, I would give positive commands in a firm voice rather that "don't do that because etc etc". That was more effective in situations where I needed to act quickly. But I did not need to smack to get that result.

As for saying "you lot", how do "you lot" explain how "we" have managed to raise respectful, well-manners DCs who know the boundaries without smacking? I was raised in the 70's, and was not smacked myself.

I agree there has been a decline in manners. This comes from a "me me" society. It comes from adults, who fail to make their children understand their responsibilities towards other people, or who are so scared of authoritarian parenting and squashing their children that they go the other way and become permissive and weak.

There is a middle way.

startail - I have two children, one of whom was incredibly tantrummy as a pre-schooler, the other who was aggressive to other children. So I have suffered through those hard years.

I honestly think focussing on punishments is missing the point. Very often changing the behaviour in young children is about avoiding or preventing it. eg, tantrums relating to hunger or over-stimulation, aggression relating to tiredness. Watching and swooping in when you see a child getting angry and likely to act out. Taking them away from a situation to calm down. If they do hit, for instance, threatening to leave and then following through.

Getting co-operation for everyday things like dressing through positivity - playfulness, using positive commands (do this) not negative (don't do that).

Understanding that parenting at this age is not about instant results but a "drip drip" approach. Realising that they watch our behaviour to see if we can maintain self-control, so they can learn to develop self-control themselves. I agree that DCs don't develop empathy and self-control until a certain age. Hitting and becoming angry is not acceptable discipline until that happens. What we do can help that process, and hitting is not the way to do that.

If you do punish, then it has to fit the crime: if you keep snatching a toy, then you don't get to play with it. If you draw on the walls (actually that one can be avoided by not allowing access to crayons and leaving them alone with them), then you help to clean it off.

There are lots of ways of disciplining if you have the will and energy to do it. unfortunately lots of us get bogged down, and even depressed, and shouting and hitting become habits, but then it's our responsibility to get help for that.

Sorry for the essay. I feel very strongly about this

startail - living with toddlers is about "living with a lot of silliness" - they are children. It's what makes it hard for us adults who want control, and have to use creative ways of teaching them.

Its funny I have 2 sisters we all have kids our mother was physically abusive to us 3 (not just a smack) yet 2 of us would never hit our kids and never have yet my eldest sister that protected us from most of it regulary hits her 4 and thinks its acceptable, even when we talk to her about how worried we are she never see's the connection and thinks she is sooo different yet she isn't and i will admit that I have never left my daughter with her yet she has stayed with my other sister overnight

If she ever raised a hand to my daughter I would call the police on her