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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Weekend in Amsterdam - how would you feel?

557 replies

cathkidstonrefusnik · 18/02/2012 10:46

I wasn't sure where to post this - I'd like to have a range of views, so didn't post in feminism. I've name-changed.

Some background first...I work in a male-dominated environment where the view of women purely as sex objects amongst some of my co-workers (not all by any means) is not far below the surface.

It has improved in the year since I've been there, at least when I'm around, largely because I can, and do, challenge inappropriate behaviour - it's public sector, so there are strict policies, and my boss is very supportive, although somewhat unenlightened himself at times.

Anyway, in a few weeks' time, it's one of my co-worker's stag celebration, and a large party are going to Amsterdam. Now, unless I'm getting the wrong idea, this is bound to involve strip clubs, sex shows, possibly prostitutes, isn't it?

Although it's entirely up to them what they do (legally) in their own time, I must admit it gives me the creeps - I'm quite surprised by some of the ones who are going to, among them married men with young children.

Am I over-reacting? Is it at all possible the weekend will involve drinking and drugs without the sex element?

I haven't commented on it negatively in work, and what exactly the weekend involves hasn't been discussed in my presence.

OP posts:

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll · 18/02/2012 11:19

I went to Amsterdam with a boyfriend when I was younger, it's really not as bad as its reputation.

A lot if the stuff around sex is even quite interesting, theres stuff about the history of porn and what it used to be like in ye olden days. They will have the option of sex shows and stop clubs, but then there are strip clubs and prostitutes all over the place, you don't need to go to amsterdam for that. And because it's more mainstream, I think the women have much more respect and support than they do in British cities.

Nyac · 18/02/2012 11:21

Somebody is going to Amsterdam to have sex with women being sold in the windows. Not stag weekends though according to this thread.

I don't think you are overreacting. Men who pay women for sexual services are disgusting and their attitudes do leak into other areas, like work.

WorraLiberty · 18/02/2012 11:22

However, I have obviously never experienced a stag weekend there myself, so it could well be drinking and maybe drugs without a sex element... that's why I was seeking some reasoned views here!

Or they could be fucking prostitutes and each other like depraved rabbits

And it would still be none of your business!

squeakytoy · 18/02/2012 11:23

It is none of your business, and you come across as a politically correct joyless woman to work with.

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:25

May I suggest that you unpick your judgy pants wedgy & mind your own blardy business? YADBU

My DH & I love Amsterdam singly & together. He went there for his stag do & our mate's stag do last year when dd was 1 (agh married man with small child has fun!!!) They had a ball, lots of weed, beer, shit food, browsing in red light district (so far the same as when we go together!), casino & seedy strip club. In fairness DH didn't much like the club, not that he's immune to the charms of naked ladies, just that he does find things like that seedy & he's a total skinflint!

They also had a boat trip in the day & went to a couple of museums, it was a mixed bag.

Nyac · 18/02/2012 11:26

If these men were going to Sweden or Iceland rather than Amsterdam for their fucks, they'd get arrested. A much better approach. Telling people to keep their nose out of the sexual exploitation of women is very retrograde.

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:27

:o @ worra

Nyac · 18/02/2012 11:30

When they get back, ask them if they paid for sex whilst they were there, because you hear that that's what men on stag weekends go to Amsterdam for.

Bring it out in the open.

youareallwrong · 18/02/2012 11:30

Ermm... Just thinking. What could they do and it still pass your approval? I'm suspecting you'd probably take issue with any group going out from work if they are all male even if its not a stag do.

You don't think this is as much to do with the fact that you aren't part of the gang as what they might get up to? You aren't feeling left out are you?

valiumredhead · 18/02/2012 11:31

I'd mind my own business!

Original poster

cathkidstonrefusnik · 18/02/2012 11:33

Lovely squeakytoy - I have posted about one, very small, issue that I'd like views on with some context to it.

I can assure you I'm certainly not joyless and wouldn't be viewed as such in any aspect of my life! However, particularly as the mother of daughters, I do think a lot about the objectification and exploitation of women.

OP posts:

TheSecondComing · 18/02/2012 11:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

youareallwrong · 18/02/2012 11:35

Nyac Amsterdam is one of the cheapest places to fly to. Sweden and Iceland are not. And at £6+ a pint not neither are the best location for a drinking weekend...

As said by many others it is v possible to go on a stag do and not go to a strip club or sleep with a prostitute. Nice to see you have such a high opinion of men...

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:35

Nyac it's a leap to suggest that any or all of them will actually pay for sex. Also, we could get into the discussion about underground prostitution (for mole fetishises?) v licensed brothels. Not all women are exploited against their will etc, but I'd suggest that it would be rather pointless.

Original poster

cathkidstonrefusnik · 18/02/2012 11:35

Just to make it clear - I am minding my own business - none of my colleagues know what I think and they won't either. I was interested in other women's points of view here, and it's enlightening to see them, although the vitriol isn't quite so welcome.

I've given one of my colleagues some left-over Euros from a recent holiday ahead of the trip.

OP posts:

Birdsgottafly · 18/02/2012 11:36

If they wanted a shagging weekend they could go to any of the known holiday destinations' Tenerife, Malia, Benidorm, Kavos, Blackpool or Amsterdam.

The only difference is that you should not have to listen to certain types of conversations in the workplace, stick to that line.

I worked with a member of the BNP,being mixed race it was difficult to listen to some stuff and especially him planning the weekends,where he would be supporting the National Front.

I, like you used the legal side so conversations only went as far as what was legally allowed.

I never made a comment or passed judgement on his activities, i just made it clear that appropriate conversation should be stuck to, in the workplace.

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:37

In fairness OP that is how your post reads.

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:37

I mean joyless & overly PC

Nyac · 18/02/2012 11:39

You asked if there's likely to be sexual exploitation of women involved in a stag weekend in Amsterdam by a group of men you know already sexually objectify women. The answer is yes. That's the main reason why large groups of men-only groups go to places like Las Vegas, Thailand, Prague or Amsterdam. To make use of the services on offer. People who are telling you you're overreacting or imagining this are being incredibly naive. There is a market, there are buyers who aren't some other men over there, they're the ones right in front of you going on stag weekends to those places.

Unless this group are a bunch of stoners in which case they probably have another reason to go to Amsterdam, but you haven't described them like that.

Birdsgottafly · 18/02/2012 11:41

Just to add, when i worked in that office,i had to listen to their tales of lap dancing clubs. When it got to a degrading level i hit back by taking the piss out of how much money the girls had taken off them that night.

And how i loved being female, because i could go out and pick up a fit younger man and not have to part with a penny, to do so.

Les face it, we can get sex anytime anywhere, if we want it, it is a shame that men have to pay for it, unless it is a fetish.

Gay40 · 18/02/2012 11:43

I go to Amsterdam every year and I don't do weed, alcohol or prostitution. I love it because it's interesting and relaxed.
But I still think it is none of your business.

valiumredhead · 18/02/2012 11:44

Quite gay!

Nyac · 18/02/2012 11:44

YAAW, it's not about what sort of opinion I have about men, it's about reality. One in ten men have paid for sex. The percentage of younger men who have done it is even higher. Most men who use prostitutes are in relationships, it's not a secret. They are just average guys, like the ones the OP works with.

Women are for sale for sex in Amsterdam. Men are buying them, in particular men who go on stag weekends there.

It takes a real feat of denial to pretend that a good number of men who go to Amsterdam for stag weekends aren't going for what's on sale there. Like I said, someone is keeping the sex industry going there. Who do you think is paying for the women in the windows?

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:45

Gay40 Amsterdam is amazing, I can't wait to take my dc & hire one of those great bikes with the kiddy crate on the front. Plenty to do, but in fairness not really likely that they'll take in the higher cultural side on a stag!

GavisconJunkie · 18/02/2012 11:47

DH on stag do in Amsterdam, 12 guys, one single guy paid for a blow job & was ridiculed for the rest of the trip.'just saying.

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