Weekend in Amsterdam - how would you feel?

[cathkidstonrefusnik]

I wasn't sure where to post this - I'd like to have a range of views, so didn't post in feminism. I've name-changed.

Some background first...I work in a male-dominated environment where the view of women purely as sex objects amongst some of my co-workers (not all by any means) is not far below the surface.

It has improved in the year since I've been there, at least when I'm around, largely because I can, and do, challenge inappropriate behaviour - it's public sector, so there are strict policies, and my boss is very supportive, although somewhat unenlightened himself at times.

Anyway, in a few weeks' time, it's one of my co-worker's stag celebration, and a large party are going to Amsterdam. Now, unless I'm getting the wrong idea, this is bound to involve strip clubs, sex shows, possibly prostitutes, isn't it?

Although it's entirely up to them what they do (legally) in their own time, I must admit it gives me the creeps - I'm quite surprised by some of the ones who are going to, among them married men with young children.

Am I over-reacting? Is it at all possible the weekend will involve drinking and drugs without the sex element?

I haven't commented on it negatively in work, and what exactly the weekend involves hasn't been discussed in my presence.

I am not a feminist...far from it! I am a woman who has not been treated very well by a man who still loves her and would give anything to go back to undo what he has done. I also have many friends who have been utterly faithful - keeping the home and kids (and jobs) on the go whilst giving the men their 'time away' from it all - which they've abused at every turn. I know that these women are not prudes, and neither am I, so for what reason were our men unfaithful? Herd mentality? 'We can have it all' sexism?

I admire your respect for men - I loved my husband so much and respected him utterly before all of this - but don't forget whilst you're women-bashing, that you ARE one.

lol @ anyfucker - no I have friends of both persuasions, just some things do need questioning, don't you think?

and I am not 'women bashing' at all, I am just pointing out that there is more than one way of looking at things.

klar, yes some things need questioning

what I have found a little uncomfortable on this thread is why you appear to have gunned for someone whose marriage to a man she previously deeply loved and respected was wrecked beyond repair by his appallingly sexist behaviour, just to prove your "point"

With regard to men who don't 'let' their partners go away with friends - I think you'll find that's quite different...there isn't a massive worldwide sex and sex trafficking industry exploiting men to satisfy women's insatiable needs. Men are not demeaned and used everyday for sexual gratification by women

So women should not be "letting" men go away with a group of their friends purely because the sex indusrty exists?

And men are only "exploited" if they choose to be. Plenty of men visit Amsterdam or go away to other places without choosing to be "exploited" or needing to be restricted by the "sisterhood".

we weren't talking about how men were viewed in society, we were talking about some men's sexual objectification of women and how they seem happily able to do it whilst raising daughters themselves

arguing that men get nasty jokes told about them too, is simply a tired and cliched "whataboutthemenz" refrain (since you brought up the subject of tired feminist cliches)

look, I was addressing the OP when seenenoughtoknow jumped down my throat with this
Klaritaf, bit rude don't you think...no need. I am simply repeating what my ex husband told me. Did I say I hate men? No. Get your facts right. It is a warning to women to be careful...a bit of sisterhood - although I'm assuming that's alien to you.
which threw me a bit. I am certainly not 'gunning' for her, just responding to her 'assumptions' about me.
everything seems to be about her and seeing things her way, for example accusing me of 'women bashing' ..I mean...wtf?

one of those god-awful "men's women"

I've actually been invited (and gone on) several weekends away where I've been the only woman. I had a good time. Does that make me "god-awful"?

AF - I agree with your points, thank you for trying to understand the reason for my posts.
Kla - I did not mean to offend you, I was simply responding to your offensive post which I (wrongly) thought was aimed at me. You had typed 'ffs' -which is pretty offensive in itself.
Fridgep - I know there are some who go there for reasons other than sex - I 'm just sharing an experience for the sake of other women, and so that I know I might have done something to help someone.

K - I know you find it hard to believe I might believe in 'sisterhood', but after the antics of the 'boys club' I and my friends unravelled, my 'sisterhood' feeling is stronger than ever. I understand if you can't understand that.

my post was not offensive, it just questioned. If you find questioning 'offensive' I suggest that is your problem, not mine.
also FFS is quite acceptable, it's even in the list of acronyms here.
Besides it's part of my culture and heritage.

Well, my culture and heritage have taught me that FFS is offensive, so we are poles apart. I believe any language I wouldn't use to my children can be deemed offensive. Your type of questioning is also very aggressive. Is that part of your heritage and culture too? I really hope you don't say FFS to your children if you have any - because no culture or heritage should allow that!

oh get a life

what does the language i might or might not use to the children i might or might not have, have to do with anything?
you left wing liberals are all the same.
you cannot stand it when anyone disagrees with your 'correct' view.

Ils - I think you are mistaking me for some sort of a prude. I took offence at Klar's first post because she had obviously just come on here to vent and be rude. The ffs was not meant nicely!!!

Klar - I really think you should get yourself some sort of life - it sounds like you have no female friends to go out with - is that because you hate women?

I have plenty of female friends, thank you, and no I do not hate women, obvs, I am one. There you go again with your assumptions and judgements- another unpleasant trait of the liberal left.

you seem to be on an agenda to stir and find personal offence when none has been posted to you Seen.

I know some women who cheated on their Husbands on a hen night so....

"Please Gentlemen, think twice before letting your DW's go away with groups of Ladies...it seems they are all very good liars - and it also seems that you are all VERY naive"

Or you could simply accept that everyone is different and that you've no need to think twice, before 'letting' the person you married do anything...simply because some other people are not to be trusted.

Squeakytoy - I suggest you read back and see who got angry first. I was posting my point of view, which people can either believe or not. Klar has been angry since she arrived.

I'm sorry you got cheated on Seen but for your own sake, don't let it turn you into a control freak, who considers people should "let/not let" their spouse do something they want because of your experience.

You can't go through life removing your spouse from situations where they may give in to some sort of tempation...that would drive bot parties mad.

I understand you may find it hard to trust anyone again, but I don't believe controlling them will help with that.

no seen, I really have not, I simply questioned. If you find that 'angry' and 'offensive' - then perhaps you have a problem? Maybe your DP got fed up of being dictated to and mind controlled?

I worked in Amsterdam back in the 80s in the red light district as a topless waitress.
Basically getting blokes to buy me expensive drinks. We used to get lots of groups of men coming on work dos etc.
Most of them would never go to prostitutes, they might go to a sex show or something, or sit among us topless girls and have a drink, and a laugh.

lol at your deigning to not comment on it negatively at work. It has nothing whatever to do with you. Also judgemental and rather unenlightened of you to assume they are all going for the sex industry there.

Lady - I'm afraid a LOT has changed since the 80's.

Klar - you really are a card - I can't take you seriously.

WL - I appreciate that point - I am in a happy relationship now with a man who has never gone in for 'lads trips'. I also know some women who've cheated on their husbands, and I know some men who've cheated on their wives...my point is that men who use the sex trade objectify women. My dd's will grow up to an epidemic of this behaviour. My exH's councillor has seen the problem grow and says it will reach a point of no return unless we attempt as a society to do something about it. I was trying to help - but instead I'm being judged. I'll leave you all to it now.