to think that if you let the students in your class do any of these things you are doing them a disservice?

[pickledsiblings]

• listen to music players whilst completing work (unless it's a music lesson/relevant)
• eat and/or drink (not water obviously)
• get up and walk around at will
• swear/use foul language to you/each other under their breath (whilst you pretend not to hear)
• dry-hump each other (to which you merely raise an eyebrow)
• routinely turn up to lessons with no pens, pencils, books
• treat the floor as a bin
• deface books
• break pens etc
• use their mobiles for texting (against whilst you pretend not to notice)

All opinions most welcome!

Any teachers willing to admit to any/all of these? Would be particularly interested in hearing your justifications.

I'm sorry pickled but that last sentence directed to Tiger really shows that you have no idea what you are talking about...come back and comment when you have spent a day in our classrooms 'coaxing 16 year olds'

Yes, they happen in independents too. I am in an independent prep. I have one boy in my class who turns up to school every day late, often with no tie, jumper or blazer, having not had breakfast and without either his entire school bag or at least a few things he will need that day.

But he has a home life from hell so I try to help him out not punish him. Money doesn't shield a family from chaos and tragedy.

OP - have you ever tried to stop a pupil from doing any of those? How about 30 pupils at the same time? In a succession of lessons? Over a few days?

Until you try it yourself I suggest you stop judging those who do - especially those like QuietTiger who have taken the time and effort to respond to you even though you're clearly itching for a fight.

If you're really worried about DD then maybe you should home educate.

The fact that your DD is ten says quite a lot. I think you're in for a shock as the teenage years approach. The world has changed quite a lot since you were at school.

Ah look. Now I don't teach in an independent school, I'm being ignored by OP. Not even an apology for her assumption.

Interesting thread but I don't really think I'd feel like I was 'admitting' to anything - I do what I feel (as a professional) is appropriate in my classroom, with my students within the framework of the school, to maximise the learning that goes on/progress made.

- listen to music players whilst completing work (unless it's a music lesson/relevant) - no, but I do have an SN class in which I will put the radio on through my laptop if we are doing revision/past papers as it helps them to focus and helps to prevent behaviours like work refusal, wandering around etc

- eat and/or drink (not water obviously) - no, but I do turn a blind eye to a few children eating in registration time as I know full well they have had no breakfast (if they have breakfast = less likely to behave poorly in lesson 1)

- get up and walk around at will - how exactly do you propose that I (a 5ft4 female) prevent a 6ft Yr 11 student from wandering? That is not to say that I do not address it, but it does happen.

- swear/use foul language to you/each other under their breath (whilst you pretend not to hear) - if I hear it, I address it, swearing at me = they go home.

- dry-hump each other (to which you merely raise an eyebrow) - I've never actually had this happen but similar attention-seeking behaviours are sometimes best ignored (you don't want to draw other pupils' attention to them as then they will start to perform for the class)

- routinely turn up to lessons with no pens, pencils, books - not a battle I'm willing to fight tbh, if they don't have a pencil or whatever, I give them one (this is in line with school policy)

- treat the floor as a bin - no

- deface books - they deface it, they recover or copy out or similar in their lunch hour

- break pens etc - again, I'm not quite sure how I'm supposed to actively prevent a child breaking a pen but I would address it

- use their mobiles for texting (against whilst you pretend not to notice) - not really a problem at my school (thank the lord - every sympathy for those of you where it is)

Why are you asking?

I am not itching for a fight, quite the opposite in fact. I am simply trying to get to grips with what is important in terms of choosing a school for my DD.

Should I be bothered that these kinds of things go on at my catchment school?

I am judging no one btw. I genuinely don't know if it matters whether or not my DD goes to a school in which these behaviours go on and in some instances go unchallenged.

By 'deface books', do you actually mean 'write in books'?

Because I encourage that. Books they own, that is.

If you are bothered that those things go on at your catchment school then you should be home educating. As far as I know, they happen at every school. Most teachers, in most subjects, would challenge them though (depending on context ets)

Oh, and what's important is that your DD is happy and able to learn. What does she think of the school?

Pickled have you sat in on lessons? Do you know that all of these things happen in every lesson? Do you know that they go unchallenged?

Sorry for 2nd post in a row but just wanted to say that I find my standards have to change considerably depending on the class sat in front of me and with some classes it is a constant balancing act between addressing poor behaviour and avoiding confrontation that would lead to the pupil having to leave the lesson.

I have learnt that sometimes a but of tactical ignoring goes a long way so if in my lesson you were to observe a pupil sneaking a crisp, you might think 'Oh my god, she's such a poor teacher, eating crisps in a lesson indeed.' But if you were to look at the incident in context - 1 pupil, I crisp eaten, tactical ignoring = pupil doesn't get attention they wanted = no confrontation = pupil stays in lesson and learns something versus I tell him off for the crisp = pupil reacts in challenging way = level of poor behaviour that I have no choice but to address (swearing etc) = pupil gets removed = learns nothing.

I don't know if that makes sense?

Constance, it makes perfect sense but I am not sure if it is the best thing for the students in the long run. Would it not be better to teach them to abide by the rules than how to work out the circumference of a circle? [genuine question btw]

Yes, Constance I agree. The biggest disruption to lessons ime is low level disruption. Talking, eating, phones, banging on the table, calling out, throwing pens, it goes on and on. It happens in every class to some extent, regardless of class, wealth and catchment. In simple terms, there is no real punishment for these offences, so the kids know you can't do anything. As one little charmer told me, arms outstretched, "What are you going to do about it? Nothing. You can't do anything."

tethers, dry humping and throwing chairs...what Independent School did you go to again?

Laughs for eternity at "Would it not be better to teach them to abide by the rules than how to work out the circumference of a circle?"

i find a "classroom contract" with each class works well
i work with 16+
some will be allowed to eat ie 1st morning class will have breakfast provided
some phone usage will be allowed
in most instances wouldn't directly speak to a student at the time, as i want them learning in class ( i will speak to them discreetly 1:1 at the end)

how did you hear about this or did you see it for yourself?

I'm probably taking my example too far but the situation I described wasn't about the pupil eating a crisp (against the rules) and not getting punished - I was trying (poorly) to express that a simple thing like that viewed in CONTEXT actually is a child attempting to get himself removed from the lesson when I want him to stay in.

In which case as well as staying in and learning something, he was also (subtly) taught a lesson in not always getting what you want. By ignoring, I had control over the situation and dictated the outcome. If I had addressed the situation with him, it would have been in his hands, which would have been exactly what he wanted (giving him opporunity to swear, sent out and do no work for the rest of the lesson).

I was just trying to say that incidents you may have been might not be what they appear.

*seen

You should be bothered and if you have an alternative then I would go elsewhere. There are schools with better behaved students, but not necessarily because the teachers run a tighter ship than the teachers in the school you describe -- they just don't have to deal with students who behave like this.

If you have no alternative and you don't think this is an environment where your DD could learn or feel at home, then I would consider home educating.

would be standard policy lequeen

we do try and collect them in before class, but would be part of classroom contract (hard to enforce with 18+ students)

we also have young people with a range of issues (ie looking for a bed to sleep in that night) so not always appropriate to stop them getting messages

big no no re using video/internet

I'm also going to point out that there is also huuuuuuge pressure from line managers and SMT not to sent pupils out so you find strategies to work around that (like my example above).