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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that if you let the students in your class do any of these things you are doing them a disservice?

247 replies

pickledsiblings · 16/02/2012 15:49

  • listen to music players whilst completing work (unless it's a music lesson/relevant)
  • eat and/or drink (not water obviously)
  • get up and walk around at will
  • swear/use foul language to you/each other under their breath (whilst you pretend not to hear)
  • dry-hump each other (to which you merely raise an eyebrow)
  • routinely turn up to lessons with no pens, pencils, books
  • treat the floor as a bin
  • deface books
  • break pens etc
  • use their mobiles for texting (against whilst you pretend not to notice)

All opinions most welcome!

Any teachers willing to admit to any/all of these? Would be particularly interested in hearing your justifications.

OP posts:
MollyBroom · 17/02/2012 15:07

I agree it is no as simple as poor teacher equals poor discipline. I have worked in some vey tough schools and have had to overcome some real discipline issues . Most classes I managed to conquer but there were a few that I could just not deal with. Desperate for help, because there was none - the same kids told the head to fuck off , I asked for my performance management observation to be with my toughest class . A boy refused to work and I had to battle against too much noise in the room. Despite being graded outstanding for my prep, subject knowledge , use of questioning, marking etc I was graded satisfactory because of the behaviour. I am not questioning the grade , I agree but it made me realise that I would be better off in a different school .

I now teach in a less challenging school with strong leadership, have been rated outstanding every year, been nominated for a national teaching award, regularly get among the best results in the school and ironically I now have a senior position in the school with responsibility for behaviour.

That does not mean students never mess me about and when they do that not automatically make me a failing teacher.

Bonsoir I may be misunderstanding you , but you seem to be under the impression that your children do no wrong . If any of my children said to me that they did not behave for a teacher because they were not worthy of their respect they would be in serious trouble.

Original poster
pickledsiblings · 17/02/2012 15:19

What I find more intriguing is the not much teaching going on/no behaviour problems combo that I know exists (all be it in a minority of cases) at the school that I have just left.

OP posts:
Pendeen · 17/02/2012 15:42

By whom? Not here it isn't.

EvilTwins · 17/02/2012 15:52

pendeen - where is "here"?

I have taught in three very different schools since qualifying in 1997 and have ALWAYS used the term "student". It is the accepted term. It just is.

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 16:27

My first heartache demanded that we used the term students rather than pupils and this had always stuck with me

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 16:27

Headteacher - bloody phone!

Bonsoir · 17/02/2012 16:51

MollyBroom - my children (my stepchildren, in this instance) are very well behaved, even for teachers they do not respect. But in those classes where they do not respect the teachers, other children behave less well than for the teachers who have gained the respect of their pupils. And that is entirely understandable, IMO, especially for children who, unlike ours, are not able to dissect their frustrations with school around the dinner table and get a sympathetic hearing.

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 17:20

Without wanting to burst your bubble bonsoir....I have had many meetings with parents who firmly believed their children were perfectly behaved...

Unless you observe them 24/7 you are never fully aware of what they are doing

Bonsoir · 17/02/2012 17:26

We have plenty of meetings at school (DP is a class rep in DSS1's class and was begged to be class rep in DSS2's class too, but we vetoed for lack of time) and, yes, they are exceedingly well behaved, undoubtedly!

wordfactory · 17/02/2012 18:11

cricket but surely we would all be informed if our DC misbehaved.
Discipline is very hot at both my DC's schools and any detention mark, let alone detention is passed on to parents.
I know that neither of my DC have ever received any.
Detention marks would almost certainly be handed out for the things on the OP's list.

I also specifically ask all my DC's teachers at parents evenings if there are any problems and ahve always been catagorically told no.

Yet I too, will not patronise my DC by saying a teacher is great if they are not. We will discuss it and I will accept how annoying a poor teacher is for my DC. However, I make it evry clear that this is not an excuse for them to misbeahve or use bad manners.

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 18:26

The point I was making was that parents think their little angels do nothing wrong and are perfect until we tell them. The majority of the op's original list will be done by the vast majority of students at some point in their school lives and if it is a one off (apart from the dry humping!) and therefore not warrant a call home especially as we would spend more time calling home than teaching.

Stealth boasting about how perfectly behaved your dc are is only likely to bite you on the bum in the long run......

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 18:27

Life sorry not lives.... still on phone rather than laptop

Bonsoir · 17/02/2012 18:28

It is Shock perfectly possible to have clever, conscientious DCs with parents well able to judge with accuracy both their own DCs and their school and teachers.

IMVHO, teachers' egos are often slightly inflated versus parents...

wordfactory · 17/02/2012 18:41

cricket at DC's schools the teachers don't need to call. Any detention marks are logged on the PC by the class tutor which automatically gets emailed to the parents.

Detention marks are handed out routinely for small misdemenours (forgetting equipment, late homework, poor attitude in class, being late for class) but some of the things on the OP's list would be a straight detention. The pupils know this. They know that their parents will find out what they're up to (often before they finish the school day). They know that they don't wanteither a detention or to have to explain their behaviour to their parents.

This keeps standards of discipline very high.

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 18:41

So you can honestly say that your dsc have never sworn under their breath, never sneaked a sweet/crisp during their 5 hours a day at school, 190 days a year? I'm guessing they haven't dry humped....

Bonsoir · 17/02/2012 18:44

cricketballs - the issue is whether DCs have ever disturbed a well-run, high-performing classroom sufficiently to get caught and receive a punishment, in an environment in which very minor misdemeanours are punished hard, and the answer is... NO!

t0lk13n · 17/02/2012 18:51

I dont allow any one to <strong>not</strong> bring a pen but I dont see the point in making too much an issue of it other than to write an email to their head of year as it wastes so much time scrabbling to look for a pen etc. It bugs the hell out of me but I have learnt when teaching teenages who dont want to be there which battles to pick. This doesnt make me a bad teacher ...just one who wants to get on with the teaching and learning!

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 18:57

But bonsoir, according to the op, those 2 examples I gave you attributed to poor teaching....

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/02/2012 19:08

bonsoir

"the issue is whether DCs have ever disturbed a well-run, high-performing classroom sufficiently to get caught and receive a punishment, in an environment in which very minor misdemeanours are punished hard, and the answer is... NO!"

that is a very neatly dodged bullet

wordfactory · 17/02/2012 19:13

cricket I think eating and swearing in class is very rare indeed. Not just my own DC but the other pupils all know that their teachers are always alert to such things, and thus they will in all likelihood be caught.
And if caught, the former would result in a detention point, the later a straight detention.
They know no blind eye will be turned.
And their parents would be informed post haste.

This knowledge means that it's just not worth it!!!

It's a bit like speed cameras. You're in a rush. You think the speed restriction is ridiculous. But you just don't do it...why? Because it's not worth the hassle.

mathanxiety · 17/02/2012 19:43

ATruth wrt the dry humping it's not the teacher's fault the first time, but it is the teacher's fault the second time it happens.

Either it is ok or it's not. If the teacher is running the classroom and it's not ok, then it absolutely should not be happening. If the teacher is running the classroom and it's fine to dry hump then what I said above doesn't apply, but the school needs to look seriously at what exactly it sees as its mission.

If the question of fault for teaching and learning conditions as poor as described by the OP is to come into the equation at all, then fault lies with very poor school leadership.

cricketballs · 17/02/2012 20:50

word - "I think eating and swearing in class is very rare indeed" I have not laughed out loud so much to a post on the internet for ages........

inkyfingers · 17/02/2012 22:16

Pens issue which freaked me out. Collect any pens left lying around school - floor preferably and there are loads. Hand out to any pupils who don't bring to lessons. Frankly you wont care if you get back or not, if pupils object ....

EndoplasmicReticulum · 17/02/2012 23:21

I misread "pens issue" there, and thought we were back on the dry humping for a minute.

Pendeen · 18/02/2012 00:15

" It is the accepted term. It just is. "

Of course it is not.

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