to think it is unacceptable to leave a 12 year old and 9 year old home alone with a 12 month old baby

[PinkElephant73]

It is half term this week and someone I know went out during the day, leaving their 2 older children age 9 and 12 alone with their 12 month old baby sibling who was asleep having a nap while the parent was out. The parent was out on 2 separate occasions for a period of about 30 minutes, but says they were no more than 10 minutes from home either time and the older children could have contacted them on their mobile phone if there was a problem. They do not seem to think there is anything to worry about with the above scenario.

Is it just me or is this totally irresponsible? what would you do if this was your friend?

oldmum42 Wed 15-Feb-12 14:04:17
"To answer some points aimed at my pp, no, the world has not got more dangerous since we were children and did babysit at age 12/13, but societies attitude and the attitude of the legal system and child protection agencies HAVE changed."

Can I just add that society's attitude has changed in this country. Attitudes are very different in Scandinavia (and probably in Southern Europe too, though I know less about that).

Basically, in other countries a 12yo would already have a few years of being left alone on his own under the belt. By the time he got to 12, matches would have lost their attraction. The parent would have had plenty of opportunities to find out whether the child was sensible or not. The child would also regularly have been in outdoors situations where they had to use their judgment and deal with emergencies. In Sweden it is normal for 11yos to go unaccompanied to the beach or go skating on ponds. They are treated far more as adults.

Iv'e never been in an earthquake either paranoid, but im pretty sure the happen.
Rita I don't understand people who come out with 'what is likely' , umm, lots of things are likely, like swallowing lego, you think that a 12 year old would know what to do in that situation?
I watched my 6yr old sister pour boiling water over her hand whilst i was 'babysitting' she didn't even scream, her hand just turned white and i didn't know what to do, that image will stay with me forever, my sister can't remember it, probably because she was in shock, but i can't.
I was 11yrs old, looking after a 6yr old, a 2yr old and 1yr old.
Mum was next door, just next door,,, so really, anything can happen.

From what I have seen of my brothers' children and dd's friends, I don't think there actually has been much change in the way children's safety is regarded in Sweden compared to when I was a child there in the 60s, perhaps not even compared to when my mother was a child in the 30s. The UK otoh has undergone an enormous shift.

You are completely mad, OP. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with leaving a baby in the company of its 12 and 9 year old siblings for half an hour.

Pag and Bonkers, it's not just about a teen knowing how to treat/handle a baby or young child (which my older DC do), it is about the fact you are leaving yourself open to legal or child protection issues if you leave a baby/young child unsupervised by an adult.

My 14yo DC is fully involved with his baby brother, can feed, change, bathe under supervision but I would still not leave the baby with him.

Rubbish. There is absolutely no legal issue here. Children do not need to be in the company of adults at all times.

YABVU.

If you raise your children to be reasonably competent in life and responsible they'll manage for at least half an hour with a baby by 12. Have you ever seen the way children cope in the rest of the (non western)world? They can cook, clean etc. I have always taught my children life skills and basic health and safety and I don't raise them to think they aren't capable of handling any grown up responsibility. I wouldn't think twice about leaving my 12 and 9 year old in charge for 30 mins or so, and I think you are being a tad judgemental.

I don't see the difference. He was sensible. I trusted him therefore I had no concerns about his ability to act rationally and care for my other two children.

He is either capable of behaving in a reasonably responsible way or not. He was capable at 12.

OTTMummA - I'd say a baby asleep in a cot is exceeding unlikely to swallow a piece of lego. Older sibling feeding a baby lego - also unlikely. Baby climbing out of the cot and finding some lego to swallow - unlikely too.

Cory, there is a huge difference between a 12yo being left in the house for a time on his/her own, and that 12yo being left in charge of a baby/very young child.

I am quite happy to try to teach my DCs independence.

Learning to be independent means making mistakes and learning from them.

There is NO way I am arranging for my DCs to learn from mistakes they have made whilst looking after a younger sibling, without me there to supervise and, if necessary, step in. It would not be fair to any of them.

There are a growing number of teens who cannot do anything for themselves - and its not just being able to cook or do housework, what concerns me are the numbers of children who (judging by these threads)apparently cannot be left at home unsupervised without setting light to the house etc!

I have DS of 13 and 10. I leave them together during the holidays while I'm at work, they are perfectly fine. If I had a younger child, I'd not hesitate to leave him/her in DS1's care for a short period of an hour or so. I'm not sure I see this as any big issue tbh.

Oh good I thought this was fine. Glad others do too!

Seriously, a child protection issue would arise if I left my child for 20 minutes?
There would need to have been some kind of a disaster in which case tat would be the bottom of my list of things to give a shit about, or someone somewhere would be running a separate agenda. Which is a whole other issue.

I am not going to make a perfectly rational parenting choice but then change my mind because someone somewhere may wish to take issue.

My 13 yr old ds used to pick up his 2 yr old sister from the cm and take her home for tea when i wure.as at work,some 12 yr olds are very mature and capable with babies.

Earthquakes do happen. Not in the UK though, so how is that relevant? I've heard a meteor could land on my house, but I'm not worried about that either.

Honestly, your risk perception is shot to hell. Children don't play with matches unless you leave matches where they can find them. Babies in cots can't swallow lego unless you have left lego in their cots for them to swallow.

Teach your children how to look after themselves first, and minimise risk sensible. Shreiking and panicing about remote random one in a million risks is a very bad example to set them.

My son is 4, he can put his clothes in the washing machine and turn it on!
He can make his own sandwiches with help, pack his rucksack and tie his own laces, he is a very capable 4 yr old, we are teaching him, gradually, how to complete day to day tasks, it is important for us that our children will be self sufficent before they leave home.
However, the possible emotional impact of a child being made to feel responsible for an accident whilst looking after a younger sibling is something that, as a parent, i can not take a risk with.
I would never forgive myself for it, it is unfair on them, let alone the baby.

oldmum42 Wed 15-Feb-12 14:24:30
"Cory, there is a huge difference between a 12yo being left in the house for a time on his/her own, and that 12yo being left in charge of a baby/very young child."

I must have expressed myself badly. What I meant was that the Swedish parent (say one of my SILs) would have no qualms about leaving a 12yo in charge of a younger sibling, because the same 12yo would have been regularly left alone without responsibilities from the time he was 7 or so, and have been doing potentially risky outdoor activities unsupervised from age 10 or 11, so they would have had time to make sure that he was trustworthy before they took the next step of leaving him with a sibling.

The idea that 12 might be the age where you could first leave a child alone without any responsibilities would leave my Swedish friends in hysterics.

I wonder if other people have very different 12 year olds to mine to be honest. It's all a bit boggling.

paranoid, i was making the point that just because something hasn't happend to you, doesn't make it an impossible thing that could happen to you, especially as it clearly has happend to other people.

I thought that was quite clear, sorry if it wasn't.

• couldn't happen to you

Bonsoir, I assure you, there is a legal/child protection angle. True, there is no legally defined set age at which you can leave a child home alone, but leave a baby/young child in the care of another child under the age of 16 (and even under the age of 18 in some circs), and you can be prosecuted for child endangerment. Even leaving the baby out of it, if you leave an older teen of 15 or 16yo on their own overnight, you could be prosecuted if something goes wrong.

pink I know. Earlier on I did say my main concern would be that the 12 and 9 year old would wind each other up.

I was talking in general, rather that this specific situation.

As far as the OP's situation goes, it seems the main problem is communication between the OP and her DH.

I wonder too. Perhaps its only my kids who don't always do what they are told, or make mistakes?