to think it is unacceptable to leave a 12 year old and 9 year old home alone with a 12 month old baby

[PinkElephant73]

It is half term this week and someone I know went out during the day, leaving their 2 older children age 9 and 12 alone with their 12 month old baby sibling who was asleep having a nap while the parent was out. The parent was out on 2 separate occasions for a period of about 30 minutes, but says they were no more than 10 minutes from home either time and the older children could have contacted them on their mobile phone if there was a problem. They do not seem to think there is anything to worry about with the above scenario.

Is it just me or is this totally irresponsible? what would you do if this was your friend?

If the baby wakes up vomitting, then they only have to cope for 10 minutes before the parent is home.

My original question was about the safety of the situation, not the rights and wrongs of one parent doing something the other does not agree with, that is a different issue.

Not that it is relevant, but for the avoidance of doubt, my DH has a full-time job of his own and has taken a few days annual leave to cover half term and spend time with the kids who we does not see much of during the normal working week.

I would ask my mums friends neighbour Paranoid, about how her house caught fire due to an electrical fault and she couldnt get out because it blocked the stairs. But I cant because she is dead.

Not if it is choking on said vomit Rita :(

Yes Bogeyface - fires like that are very rare, and in that situation the children would have died anyway.

And what if the baby choked on vomit in the night when everyone was asleep? Or when you were in the garden, or the shower?

What if a rabid fox got in the window and savaged the baby?

But they happen, and the fact remains that he didnt need to go out, he did it out of selfishness. He did leave them at risk, no matter how small, it is still a risk.

Me and my brother were in our bedroom (I was about 3/4?) and the duvet slipped onto an electric fire. Started smoking so I went to get my mum as knew it wasn't right. She was passed out asleep so I had to go back in the room and walk around the burning duvet and get my brother (he was still in nappies so young).

Fires can and do happen although in our case it was stupid to have an electric fire so close to the bed.

Attempting to eliminate every possible risk in life, however small or unlikely, isn't a very healthy way to live.

Yes these things happen, but why make the risk bigger by not having an adult who could cope in that situation present? Especially when the only reason he isnt there is because he felt like getting out of the house for a bit?!

Really Rita?

Yes of course houses catching fire are rare. But one of the most common causes of house fires (apart from fags) is children messing about with matches. Which they only tend to do when unsupervised.

And yes I think my DCs are far too sensible to mess around with matches. But everyone whose kids have messed around with matches thought that.

I know from my own childhood experience that when DCs are left alone in the house they often decide to make themselves something to eat - which is another fire risk.

Re the vomiting. . . I think even 10 minutes is a bit too long for a child to have to spend covered in puke because its siblings don't know what to do.

Unless it's NECESSARY for the parent to pop out of course, in which case you have to weigh up the risks and hope for the best. But to pursue a hobby. Oh no.

Well for me, it isnt eliminating all danger etc but eliminating the possibility of the 12 year old being held, or holding themselves, responsible for something that wasnt their fault.

I apologise mumof1 - sorry to sound stroppy

The best a parent can do is to reduce as far as possible the risk to their children. How is this not healthy?

blondie - because it can mean a lifetime of completely irrational worry. It's the mentality which starts in pregnancy meaning people have kittens if they think they've so much as looked at a piece of sushi, which leads people to have a video camera fixed on their baby in the cot from day one, and which in my opinion is completely and utterly insane. I also do not think that kind of obsession with worst-case scenarios is healthy for the child.

Only if you leave matches with your children!

None of us reduce the risks as far as possible with our children. We drive when we could walk, we fly when not strictly necessary, loads of things. What we do is balance risk with convenience, need, desire etc, and make our own choices.

To answer some points aimed at my pp, no, the world has not got more dangerous since we were children and did babysit at age 12/13, but societies attitude and the attitude of the legal system and child protection agencies HAVE changed.

Leaving a baby with a 12 year old, or any other child under the age of 16 (and even a "child" between the age of 16 and 18), could leave you, as the adult, legally responsible for any harm that comes to the baby. Check out the advice on NCPCC and similar websites.

Accidents do happen. Children do things they are not supposed to do. Imagine the 12 year old (or the 9 year old) decides to cook, and manages to start a fire, or the baby wakes and the older child feeds it something, and it chokes, or as it has a dirty nappy, and the older child decides to bath the baby........ many unexpected things may happen and the older child/children may not act in the way they have been told, or in the way you would expect your mature under 16 year old child to react. They may panic, they may not act quickly enough.

If your baby/young child were to land up in hospital because of similar scenarios to those I outlined above, SS would be very interested in looking into the fact no adult was present (my DH has a child protection role as part of his job, and 2 cousins are SW).

I have an 18 and a 17yo DS, a 14yo and a baby, I would NEVER leave the baby in the care of the 14yo, and have only briefly with the 17/18yo.

Most of the posts seem to focus on the baby. What about teaching our older children about responsibility?

I certainly think a 12 year old can be taught the same skills an adult has as far as dealing with an (unlikely) emergency and unexpected situation: fire, first aid, stranger at door. What they do lack is experience and often this is what comes in useful when dealing with emergencies - keeping calm.

I think its quite sad if you can't trust your fairly old teenagers with a baby. Haven't you taught them any responsibility or caring skills at all?

I left my child with my son when he was 12. He was babysitting for us when he was 14.
He is very sensible.
I think the notion that a child cannot be responsible, cannot be trusted in everyday situations is the reason that some 18 year olds arrive at university or a job without a clue, endlessly waiting for someone to tell them what to do.

Independence, responsibility, trust are gifts.

Pagwaatch There is a very important difference between entrusting your child with the responsibility of looking after him/herself, and that of looking after another child.

One way of mitigating risk to to raise your children so that they can cope with baby sliblings' vomit/house catching fire/ dodgy public transport/ crossing roads/ mad axemen etc etc etc.

The best way to get them to be able to cope with said risky situations is to allow them to take (very small at first) risks, then build up to normal everyday occurences. E.g. cross cul de sac under supervision age 7, cross cul de sac on own age 8. Cross minor road under supervision age 9, cross on own age 10 etc etc.

We are all in danger of raising totally irresponsible, uncapable teens who can't boil an egg let alone navigate night buses and cope with babysitting! Give them the confidence to deal with life please.

That said I'd have been pissed off if dh had taken time off specifically to spend time with his dcs and he'd decided to go for a run instead. If he took time off to cover hall term cos you're at work then I think fair enough - let him run.

bonkersLFDT20 there is also a 9 year old in the mix - is it fair to expect a 12 year to be responsible for looking after a baby and also supervising what the 9 year old does with the baby? Most 9 year olds I know do not want to be told what to do by their 12 year old sibling!

Oh yes Pag God forbid our children actually have to develop the skill of taking responsibility for someone other than ourself