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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MN Jury - need perspective on potential paranoia

202 replies

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 22:57

Right here goes - longtime MNer (although recently more lurking than posting) namechanging for some no holds barred, arse-kicking, truly impartial MN advice.

H and I married 14 years, 3 kids, fairly up and down marriage - typical rollercoaster - when it's good it's great, when it's not good it's really really shit. Dynamic shifted some six years ago whilst pregnant with DC1 when I discovered H had embarked on a fairly nasty text-messaging EA with a woman he met through work. Started when I was 7 mths pregnant, discovered when DC1 was four months old. Carried on for another six or seven months until I found a hidden phone by which time it had stopped. H at the time swore blind it was text messages only, I later discovered sometime after the birth of DC2 that he also telephoned her numerous times a day. He said he only met her once. We moved on ..sort of..had an unplanned DC3. During that time, there have been a couple of occasions when I've found questionnable texts. Rightly or wrongly, I've been checking up on him and both times caught it in the early stages. H is somewhat of a ladies man - I want to say was a ladies man but of course evidence shows that he still considers himself to be so.

There's the background - may be irrelevant but wanted to show H's history. Current situation is this - H and I fostered a friendship with a girl from the local nursery whilst I was pregnant with DC3 - let's call her Jane. She was DC2's keyworker and loved him to bits. H bought her flowers on her birthday (without discussing with me beforehand) and I thought nothing of it because he's fairly generous especially where he thinks kids may benefit. We decided to ask her to babysit DCs whilst I was in hospital. Rang her on the night i went into labour - she cancelled her plans and H picked her up and brought her round. She stayed with kids whilst H took me to hospital. He stayed with me a couple of hours and then went home - to be fair, they told him to. I thought nothing of it at the time. He was going to come first thing in the morning. We had discussed many times that I'd prefer he be with the kids and I would be fine on my own. In the event, he did come the next morning albeit five minutes after I gave birth.

Jane continued to come round ostensibly to see me and the kids. H would collect her and drop her home. He would literally be minutes in the car and often took one of the kids with him when doing this. We discussed that she was a bit of a pain in that she would often invite herself over and then stay far beyond her welcome (along the lines of until 1am in the morning when DC3 was a few weeks old). However we thought she was maybe lonely having not long broken up with her long-term bf.

DC and I went on hols with my parents when DC3 was about 8 months old. H couldn't come as he'd just started new job. We were only away a week but on my return I had texts from Jane asking to come over the following weekend which she did. H was totally different - he didn't offer to collect her or indeed drop her home. He went upstairs and had a bath and then went out. He has never done this with either Jane or indeed any of my friends. No matter how much of a twat he's being to me, he's always been super polite and welcoming to our guests and bent over backwards to see to their needs to the extent that I sometimes feel a bit redundant. Not the case on this occasion - he basically gave Jane the cold shoulder. After I took her home, I did tackle him on it and asked if something was up. He was so weird and dismissive that I really couldn't fathom why he behaved that why.

I shouldn't have but of course I did check his phone and lo and behold there were a number of text message exchanges between them, including one call from her to his phone at midnight. I went absolutely batshit crazy. Not least because he had deleted some of the texts - the ones left were fairly innocuous but still, the fact that he hadn't shared this with me even when I tackled him on his odd behaviour and had deleted some of the exchange left a very very bad taste in my mouth.

His attitude was to treat me as some mad crazy bitch who was making up stuff in her head. We tried to talk about it a number of times - our relationship went to hell. I did say to him on numerous occasions that I didn't think anything had happened not least because he had given her the cold shoulder the last time she visited. I asked specifically why she would call at midnight knowing he was alone. He said that he had no idea - he'd been half asleep so had just made excuses and hung up. Sounds plausible but his insistence that Jane was just a innocent young girl who'd simply made an error in judgement ringing him so late infuriated me for some reason. We stopped talking about it ..well, basically because we stopped talking. Only recently have we been slowly getting back on track after a particularly nasty argument a few weeks back.

Okay this is very long but to get to the crux of what advice I need...in a nutshell! Jane has only texted me once in the last four months (since our holiday) to ask to come over. She has texted H and telephoned him about three times, the last time saying that she couldn't get hold of me. H rang her back and left her a voicemail on one occasion when he got short shrift from me for making apologies for me as if I was being unreasonable. So far as I know, he's ignoring her (I'm no longer checking his phone). Last week, I deleted Jane from FB - firstly because the whole thing is doing my fucking head in and secondly because she had some godawful link to a photoalbum named "Cockalicious" or something equally tasteless. DC1 (7) often reads over my shoulder and I don't fancy answering that question. She's obviously twigged and has, in the space of two hours tonight, texted me twice, rang me and sent me a private fb message.

So what the fucking fuck do I do? Am I totally mad? Should I be apologising to Jane and to H for being some mad old paranoid bint? I'd come to terms with the fact that I was never going to know exactly what happened whilst I was away but I was pretty sure H wouldn't be such a fucking plonker to shit on his own doorstep and be willing to throw our relationship away which is what would happen if I caught him doing anything (and I mean anything) untoward again. My gut says ignore her messages and delete delete delete. But part of me wonders whether I should meet her and just let her know why I'm not interested in pursuing a friendship with her. She's old enough (21 yrs) to know what's appropriate and even though she certainly may have a crush on H going on her past behaviour, she should know that I'm not exactly going to just brush that under the carpet.

Anyway - if you've managed to read this far, congratulations - give yourself a shiney!

OP posts:
EverlongYouAreGoldAndOrange · 10/09/2012 14:46

Definately trust what your gut is telling.

I'm sorry OP. I couldn't trust him if he were my H. And I wouldn't put up with it.

Nor should you.

zippey · 10/09/2012 15:30

You're not being unreasonable and all the evidence points that your husband has cheated and will cheat in the future. I think you want to "catch him in the act" for 100% proof, but as he seems dogged in his underhand behaviour, it probably wont happen.

You will need to gauge up all the circumstancial evidenence, of which there is a lot, and decide what to do. No path you decide will be easy. But please have faith in yourself, faith in your judgement of the evidence and faith in your ability to survive without a cheating partner.

paranoidandroidwreckmyownlife · 10/09/2012 15:35

PP, just wanted to say I'm another one who is here for, going through the same thing but 5m down the line. I still have times when I feel like my heart has been ripped out and torn apart, but they're getting further apart. The anger and betrayal is still very much there, but the feelings of fear and panic are pretty much over. When you can finally detach from feeling you need love and attention from this lowlife cheating & lying fuckwit your life will be infinitely better.
Being lonely on your own (although it won't be too bad because you have your children) hurts far less than feeling lonely in a marriage.
Huge unmumsnetty type hugs!!

Bobyan · 10/09/2012 16:18

At best he's a deceitful lying shit, at worst he's a cheating lying shit.
You are taking far too much responsibity for the end of this relationship, if it was all the other way around he would have walked away years ago.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 16:53

Thank you all so much - I'll try again with the flowers Thanks !!

I'm too exhausted and too tearful to namecheck all your lovely people but just a quick one to Thirtysomething - the counselling is something that comes up again and again. He resolutely refuses to go - after all this Jane business, I was determined to make it happen but excuse after excuse has meant that it hasn't. He won't even go to individual counselling - he just doesn't recognise that his behaviour is a problem.

It's too late for cousnelling now I think although I do totally get your thinking that where kids are involved, leaving should be a last resort. This is why I'm so reluctant to take that final step and "close the door". It's so hard - I put aside all those thoughts about being too fat and too ugly to ever find someone else because as another poster said being lonely in a marriage is worse than being alone. But I keep thinking about the kids and how sad they will be to lose their Dad from their daily lives. They adore him and the feeling is totally mutual. I feel like a prize shit for taking their Dad away from them...

OP posts:
paranoidandroidwreckmyownlife · 10/09/2012 17:00

You are not the one doing the destroying and tearing apart pp. He is! My exh still cannot accept his behavior caused our split. If he could the guilt would probably finish him off, if the Viagra and a 21yr old don't!
This is not your fault, self preservation is what's needed for you now.x

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 17:23

Thank you Paranoid - what a great name btw Wink I think I know he's wrecked our relationship, I just can't come to terms with the fact that my actions may wreck his relationship with his children iyswim. I've got to do it anyhow so I just have to get on with it I guess.

a 21 year old and viagara for your ex-h - my my, he is setting himself up for high expectations isn't he?! I would love to be a fly on the wall when that one falls apart Grin

OP posts:
cheekybarsteward · 10/09/2012 17:39

Don't think he put too much time in worrying about not seeing his DC's daily when he was messing around and lying his ass off?

BlackTieNTails · 10/09/2012 17:40

havent read the whole thread (cant be doing with the amateur psychs who try to analyse everything even tho they have not met or spoken to the accused)

anyway, what did he say/how did he act when you got back from hols and said jane was coming over

TimeForMeAndDD · 10/09/2012 17:47

Your actions won't wreck his relationship with his children. It's up to him to ensure that once you are no longer living together he maintains a good relationship with the children. You are not doing anything wrong by leaving this man, you are not the bad guy here, you are leaving to give yourself and your children an emotionally stable and abuse free life. Simple as. You can do this Prue, you are stronger than you give yourself credit for Smile

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 18:09

Cheeky - that made me larf my arse off but yes, spot on!

Black tie - you may want to read the whole thread. My H is far from The Accused and the people posting are far from amateur psychs - they're lovely caring women (I think!) who have offered me much needed support and their shoulders to bawl my heart our on. So so far from a nest of vipers you lovely lot Smile

TimeForMe thank you Lovely

OP posts:
holyfishnets · 10/09/2012 18:53

You have posted about this before.

I recon she could have easily fallen for him. She is single while he is not. He is the guilty party if anything has happened.

I would fix a date to meet without explanation, get her tipsy and merry, confine about a few light personal things of yours, regain her confidence, then tell her that your DH has come clean about what happened between the two of them and you want to hear it from her side. Tell her that you don't blame her at all and that you hold your DH totally responsible as he is the married person.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 22:16

Holyfishnets - yes I have posted before - it's the same thread!! I did as your post suggests though so you've obviously got a handle on the situation regardless.

No update to speak of but I just wanted to say thanks for being there for me today. In the past, I've been ground down by H and his insistence on me being the problem rather than him. It seems ridiculous now but it's the truth. I've always worked on the assumption that he loves me and therefore he cares that I'm hurting and that he's giving me less than I need. That assumption seems to have disappeared although I'm not entirely sure why finding 2 condoms has had that result. Maybe there's some amateur psychs who can help me with that Wink

I did mention to H tonight (in a very very short conversation where I made him a cup of tea) that just because I was leaving him, that didn't mean I hated him. He seemed a bit flabbergasted and tried to counter with more discussion of how crazy I am. I just said I didn't want to discuss more lies and walked out. Thankfully it has stayed calm although I can feel him simmering under the surface. This is my danger zone now which I'm trying to acknowledge so that I can deal with it correctly - he tells me I'm crazy, I act a bit crazy, he placates me and I give in and then the whole cycle continues again. Please God let me have the strength to keep his charm at bay and do what I need to do for my own health, forget happiness - if this keeps up, I'll grind myself into the ground with anxiety and that stomach churning fear of the inevitable you all describe so well. Wish me luck...

OP posts:
IvanaNap · 10/09/2012 22:38

Good luck :)
Was gas lighting already mentioned btw?
A new thread, liking to this old one, might be an idea. A fresh start, new input, positive action taken to help inform your next steps?

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 22:45

I've heard of gaslighting Ivana but never really applied it to my situation - not because I don't think its relevant but because I seem to have a real problem with labelling DH with anything - it feels like a betrayal of sorts. I guess it's all tied up with the reasons why I've felt so unable to challenge his behaviour in any meaningful way in the past. I'm intending to deal with that once I've made the break so that I don't make the same mistakes in the future.

A new thread is a good idea but I'm reluctant to start one for some reason. I want to cling onto this for a while (despite the obvious confusion it's causing some posters). It feels comfortable to have the back history there at the same time as posting. I keep re-reading my OP and reminding myself that it's not about condoms, it's about headfucks!

I will start a shiny new thread when I've finally got a place to go to though. Until then, it feels like a fraud 'cos I've not actually done anything yet Confused

Ta for the good luck vibes btw - I will need them tomorrow when I tell my (very old fashioned and anti divorce) parents...

OP posts:
mum4041 · 10/09/2012 22:57

Good luck op.

WhereYouLeftIt · 10/09/2012 23:06

ParanoidPrue, so sorry for where you find yourself now. I also do not think that you need to have 'proof' of his misbehaviour. You don't trust him, and you have good reason not to. A whole history of reasons. It doesn't really matter if he has been physically unfaithful or not, his behaviour has caused you sorrow and killed your trust. No good relationship can exist without trust, and your relationship no longer has any.

As an aside, I think his weasel words (calling you paranoid, crazy etc.) to try and change the subject away from his faults are cruel and causing you distress. Might I suggest that next time this happens, rather than deny it, instead ask him why he would want to be with someone who he thinks is paranoid/crazy/whatever. Just keep turning it back on him, do not allow him to control the conversation.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 23:14

Great advice WhereYouLeftIt - I'm definitely going to do that tomorrow. You're right - why would anyone want to stay shackled to a paranoid and mentally unstable elephant woman?!

OP posts:
paranoidandroidwreckmyownlife · 11/09/2012 00:03

Been right where you are PP. Its easier for him to blame you as it absolves him of any blame. Just keep handing the blame back to him to deal with. My exh still tries to blame me, did it in mediation last week. They leave you with no choice, escape with what's left of your sanity and self respect or shrivel and die in a hole of paranoia and anxiety. My doctor actually took the step of telling me I couldn't continue luke that any longer. He was crippling me. Once I made the decision to end it, doc was sooo supportive, sees me every few weeks for an update on divorce, settlement and adjust my ad's and sleeping tablets if needs be. I'm off all anxiety/panic attack meds now, that's progress!
Is your doctor sympathetic, they can be more supportive than you think, go see them. Smile

dysfunctionalme · 11/09/2012 02:07

God, poor you, what a horrible string of events.

When I read your OP, I assumed there had been an illicit encounter of some description. Contrary to all other posters I read it that he'd tried it on with her and she had rebuffed. As that happened to me in several different homes when I was a nanny. Then the husband feels like an idiot and makes himself absent.

However, we do not know whether anything happened between them, nor why he is stashing condoms in the car.

But we do know he is not trustworthy, that he's hurt you many times and then, when you have the audacity to confront him, he ridicules you.

That is a really horrible way to treat a partner.

ParanoidPrue I think your relationship has run its course and that if you get out now, you have more chance of salvaging a workable shared-parenting relationship than you do if you let the bitterness fester any longer.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, very painful. Maybe it's time for this thread to move to relationships where there are lots of lovely posters.

Spermysextowel · 11/09/2012 05:40

You do not need confirmation of bad behaviour. I paid a private detective to follow my now ex-husband. Very 007 but she did advise me that if I'd got to that stage something was clearly going on. Bizarrely he still denied it despite filmed evidence showing him going into a woman's flat in the evening & coming out in the morning. While I was in hospital with our new-born son.
It did at least give me peace of mind & prove that I wasn't the mad crazy old cow I'd been accused of being, but as Mrs Bond said, in my heart I knew already. As you do too. Even tho I had the proof I held out for ages through fear of where I would go, how I would live. Nothing could be worse than the way I had been semi-living; I've noted your 'elephant' comments - believe me that this is in part due to your lack of self-worth. When I ditched the husband I lost an incredible amount of weight without even trying; it was purely having no need to comfort eat. A
I met a man who was 26 years old (12 years my junior) & am having the time of my life 10 years on!
Get legal advice, beg help from family, get out of a situation that will deflate you spiritually & spoil time with your children because you are always mulling over what is ultimately a poisonous relationship (for you). It's scary, but the day that you no longer feel the need to stealth-read your partner's texts is the day that you realise that it was truly worth it.

I fervently wish you all the best.

ParanoidPrue · 11/09/2012 07:07

Thanks dysfunctional - it helps to hear that (from an outsider's perspective) his behaviour is hurtful. I was turning over Nd over again in my mind last night all the times I'd found out something dodgy and his various responses from nice to nasty - even when it was nice, it was kind of just ruffling my hair saying "What a silly girl of course I love you" way whilst I'd be sobbing my heart out in excruciating pain.

Your story helps Sperm (feels weird typing that!) - I have thought about getting a pi in the past but decided against it mostly for financial reasons. Your comment on checking the phone resonates with me - H's pet peeve is my "snooping" which he bleats on about - apparently my "policing" of him is 100 x worse than whatever he gets up to Confused

Today as predicted I am wavering - h got up with our toddler this morning which he never does. Just seeing them together makes me think I'm overreacting in my decision to leave. Just when I think I'm set in mind, the doubts crowd in and I question whether he is right and I'm just being a drama queen Sad

OP posts:
CinnabarRed · 11/09/2012 08:58

You're not overreacting, and you're not stopping him having a perfectly lovely relationship with his children.

Anyway, if he cared that much about them, he'd get up with your toddler every morning, not just when he's on best behaviour. Smacks of emotional manipulation to me.

ExitPursuedByABear · 11/09/2012 09:09

I remember your thread first time round. So sorry to hear you are still suffering emotionally.

Have strength.

Moominsarescary · 11/09/2012 10:02

Have nothing to add, just wanted to say stay strong and good luck x

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