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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MN Jury - need perspective on potential paranoia

202 replies

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 22:57

Right here goes - longtime MNer (although recently more lurking than posting) namechanging for some no holds barred, arse-kicking, truly impartial MN advice.

H and I married 14 years, 3 kids, fairly up and down marriage - typical rollercoaster - when it's good it's great, when it's not good it's really really shit. Dynamic shifted some six years ago whilst pregnant with DC1 when I discovered H had embarked on a fairly nasty text-messaging EA with a woman he met through work. Started when I was 7 mths pregnant, discovered when DC1 was four months old. Carried on for another six or seven months until I found a hidden phone by which time it had stopped. H at the time swore blind it was text messages only, I later discovered sometime after the birth of DC2 that he also telephoned her numerous times a day. He said he only met her once. We moved on ..sort of..had an unplanned DC3. During that time, there have been a couple of occasions when I've found questionnable texts. Rightly or wrongly, I've been checking up on him and both times caught it in the early stages. H is somewhat of a ladies man - I want to say was a ladies man but of course evidence shows that he still considers himself to be so.

There's the background - may be irrelevant but wanted to show H's history. Current situation is this - H and I fostered a friendship with a girl from the local nursery whilst I was pregnant with DC3 - let's call her Jane. She was DC2's keyworker and loved him to bits. H bought her flowers on her birthday (without discussing with me beforehand) and I thought nothing of it because he's fairly generous especially where he thinks kids may benefit. We decided to ask her to babysit DCs whilst I was in hospital. Rang her on the night i went into labour - she cancelled her plans and H picked her up and brought her round. She stayed with kids whilst H took me to hospital. He stayed with me a couple of hours and then went home - to be fair, they told him to. I thought nothing of it at the time. He was going to come first thing in the morning. We had discussed many times that I'd prefer he be with the kids and I would be fine on my own. In the event, he did come the next morning albeit five minutes after I gave birth.

Jane continued to come round ostensibly to see me and the kids. H would collect her and drop her home. He would literally be minutes in the car and often took one of the kids with him when doing this. We discussed that she was a bit of a pain in that she would often invite herself over and then stay far beyond her welcome (along the lines of until 1am in the morning when DC3 was a few weeks old). However we thought she was maybe lonely having not long broken up with her long-term bf.

DC and I went on hols with my parents when DC3 was about 8 months old. H couldn't come as he'd just started new job. We were only away a week but on my return I had texts from Jane asking to come over the following weekend which she did. H was totally different - he didn't offer to collect her or indeed drop her home. He went upstairs and had a bath and then went out. He has never done this with either Jane or indeed any of my friends. No matter how much of a twat he's being to me, he's always been super polite and welcoming to our guests and bent over backwards to see to their needs to the extent that I sometimes feel a bit redundant. Not the case on this occasion - he basically gave Jane the cold shoulder. After I took her home, I did tackle him on it and asked if something was up. He was so weird and dismissive that I really couldn't fathom why he behaved that why.

I shouldn't have but of course I did check his phone and lo and behold there were a number of text message exchanges between them, including one call from her to his phone at midnight. I went absolutely batshit crazy. Not least because he had deleted some of the texts - the ones left were fairly innocuous but still, the fact that he hadn't shared this with me even when I tackled him on his odd behaviour and had deleted some of the exchange left a very very bad taste in my mouth.

His attitude was to treat me as some mad crazy bitch who was making up stuff in her head. We tried to talk about it a number of times - our relationship went to hell. I did say to him on numerous occasions that I didn't think anything had happened not least because he had given her the cold shoulder the last time she visited. I asked specifically why she would call at midnight knowing he was alone. He said that he had no idea - he'd been half asleep so had just made excuses and hung up. Sounds plausible but his insistence that Jane was just a innocent young girl who'd simply made an error in judgement ringing him so late infuriated me for some reason. We stopped talking about it ..well, basically because we stopped talking. Only recently have we been slowly getting back on track after a particularly nasty argument a few weeks back.

Okay this is very long but to get to the crux of what advice I need...in a nutshell! Jane has only texted me once in the last four months (since our holiday) to ask to come over. She has texted H and telephoned him about three times, the last time saying that she couldn't get hold of me. H rang her back and left her a voicemail on one occasion when he got short shrift from me for making apologies for me as if I was being unreasonable. So far as I know, he's ignoring her (I'm no longer checking his phone). Last week, I deleted Jane from FB - firstly because the whole thing is doing my fucking head in and secondly because she had some godawful link to a photoalbum named "Cockalicious" or something equally tasteless. DC1 (7) often reads over my shoulder and I don't fancy answering that question. She's obviously twigged and has, in the space of two hours tonight, texted me twice, rang me and sent me a private fb message.

So what the fucking fuck do I do? Am I totally mad? Should I be apologising to Jane and to H for being some mad old paranoid bint? I'd come to terms with the fact that I was never going to know exactly what happened whilst I was away but I was pretty sure H wouldn't be such a fucking plonker to shit on his own doorstep and be willing to throw our relationship away which is what would happen if I caught him doing anything (and I mean anything) untoward again. My gut says ignore her messages and delete delete delete. But part of me wonders whether I should meet her and just let her know why I'm not interested in pursuing a friendship with her. She's old enough (21 yrs) to know what's appropriate and even though she certainly may have a crush on H going on her past behaviour, she should know that I'm not exactly going to just brush that under the carpet.

Anyway - if you've managed to read this far, congratulations - give yourself a shiney!

OP posts:
Hoolet · 14/02/2012 23:38

I wouldn't meet up with her. But I'm of the person-with-the-most-dignity-wins school of thought so I'd be worried about what my reaction would be. I also think that she is not your problem.

rhondajean · 14/02/2012 23:40

She's not the problem, but she's the o ly one who might be able to clear up what happened while the husband is playing silly buggers?

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 23:41

You see - Hootlet, that's my natural reaction. To hold my head high, say nothing but inwardly think "fuck you". I did that when I fell out with my family over marrying H and then with his family for various reasons. I've never in my life confronted anyone about anything other than H obviously. That's why I needed some impartial advice so very badly. What if it was nothing? Won't I look a total fool?

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rhondajean · 14/02/2012 23:46

Well the nothing it could be is her overstepping the mark with the midnight call and if you tell her, she will know a bit more about boundaries. You could look on it as doing her a favour and just see what comes out of it.

Your mind is never going to be wt rest over this I fear.

TessTickular · 14/02/2012 23:47

Why are you still with this creep?

DodieSmith · 14/02/2012 23:49

You won't look a fool. She has asked to meet up, so presumably has something to say.

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 23:50

I don't know TessTickular - although I did LOL a bit at your comment as well as your name!

I guess I feel a bit "better the devil you know". He made a mistake, a while ago now. We had a totally unrelated crisis which is when I got pregnant with DC2 and since then, I really have very little evidence of anything other than a bit of flirting. I have thought a lot about leaving, I'm just so loathe to break up our (mostly happy) family over what could be something or nothing. I'm not perfect myself - not bad but not perfect.

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georgethecat · 14/02/2012 23:53

MMmmm I guess its a very individual thing as to where the dignity lies which is why I said this is what I would do but not necessarily everybody's course of action.

I think you've got to go with what you feel is comfortable to you, there is no point creating additional stress for yourself.

Maybe alternatively, you and H work out where you are going with your relationship. As a previous poster said maybe its the wrong angle to focus on the details - sex etc but instead the deceit/break down of communication.

Not an easy one.

GoingForGoalWeight · 14/02/2012 23:54

YANBU t be paranoid but don't blame Jane more than you sneaky, cheating Husband. I'd have finished with him the first time. voice of experience

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 23:54

The thing is Dodie - she didn't ask to meet up alone. We've never done that. She wants to come over as she always did I guess. Funny thing is, when she's here she never really helps with the kids or brings them anything, apart from a present for DC3 when he was born. H said that she was asleep by the time he got home the night I went to hospital and in the morning he had to wake her up after he'd got the kids ready so that he could take them all to nursery before coming to see me. We paid her £50 really just for peace of mind.

I think that Rhonda is right - I will never stop second-guessing H no matter what the circumstances. But at least on this occasion, I can try to find out what I can so I'm not so in the dark about everything. The last time, I left it too late and when I tried to call the number, it was disconnected so I'll never know the truth especially if H keeps lying and lying and lying.

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ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 23:57

I don't blame her exactly Going - funnily enough if something did happen, it would almost vindicate her because her actions would then make sense. But I can't understand why she would keep befriending me and coming over to play with my children if really she's only interested in my husband.

God, I've just realised how naive I sound. I feel so duped - she seemed so sweet and innocent and not at all duplicitious in any way.

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DodieSmith · 15/02/2012 00:13

Your last post says her actions only make sense if something did happen.

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:14

Ok - am going to bed now as I appear to have killed my own thread Blush

I will sleep on my well-honed MN consensus (mostly) plan and then text Jane in the morning a brief text asking her to meet me for coffee this Saturday ... then no doubt I'll shit myself for the rest of the week whilst I prepare myself! Good idea about having a friend at the ready Rhonda - I think I'll do that.

Right - thank you all - you've helped me more than you'll know. Night x

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ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:16

Yes - sorry Dodie that's what I meant. If H did do the nasty then it would totally make sense her crossing those boundaries because H had already crossed them himself. She would then be blameless and H would be the nob.

However, if he'd merely flirted and then she mistook the signals and crossed the boundaries of appropriateness (is that even a word??) then she needs telling to grow the fuck up

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GoingForGoalWeight · 15/02/2012 00:17

I hope Jane doesn't text DH before Saturday to concoct a believable story! If you know where Jane lives, just turn up at her house! You deserve so much better x

essexmumma · 15/02/2012 00:19

She would come over to do those things to see your H if desperate. He could have spun her all the lines in the world, promise her the earth, will leave his wife etc. Yes she is old enough to have and know boundaries but young enough at 21 to be naive, young and fall for his lies. I would meet her and ask as others have said.

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:20

Oh Lord Going - d'you think? Maybe you're right - I could just turn up on Saturday. She lives with her Mum though and that seems really mean

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ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:23

Really Essexmumma - you think she would come over and see us with a new baby just to get a glimpse of H. We aren't exactly lovey dovey but we definitely act like a couple. Wouldn't it be too painful to see him playing happy families with his wife if he was promising you the world on the side? I just can't see it...

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essexmumma · 15/02/2012 00:29

She is 21! Could be 1st 'love' for her or she may have misread the signals and being a bit clingy/weird about it. You don't know how much he could be controlling her...I reckon he has either cheated and she is infatuated or he brushed her off and she is infatuated. If he is giving her the cold shoulder (strange all of a sudden) then her only link to him is you. You cutting her off is making her desperate. Not necessary true but another theory.

I feel for you though, you have clearly tried to make this work but if doesn't accept the fundamental point that he cheated then I think this will go on until it's stopped.

essexmumma · 15/02/2012 00:30

If he doesn't accept...

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:39

I do think you could be right Essexmumma - I'm looking at this from the perspective of a 30-something jaded with men approach whereas really I should be thinking back to when I was 21 and waiting for my knight in shining armour (ha!). the weird thing that I haven't mentioned is that she now has a boyfriend whose professions of love she plasters all over fb. Weirdly he looks similar to DH and is of a similar ethnic background. I just can't get my head around what she's playing at but I guess you could be right and her infatuation could be what's driving her interest in me and the kids.

Something you said really hit home though - it will never end unless he accepts that putting himself out as available is effectively cheating. I don't know what to do about this - I've literally been banging my head against that wall for the last seven years. Since DC3 was born I gave up and told him that I no longer trusted him at all and couldn't see myself ever doing so. He seems gutted and has been trying so hard - apart from when he makes me feel like I'm crazy of course!

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inatrance · 15/02/2012 00:47

Prue I'm really sorry but everything you wrote in your OP screamed at me that he's cheated on you before and that something has gone on/is going on with this girl.

Seriously, the first time he did this was when you were having his baby!! I'm Shock that you managed to restrain yourself from ripping his balls off for that one alone. He has somehow managed to convince you that this was ok and forgiveable and has the sheer gall to try to convince you that you are paranoid. The bastard.

You are NOT paranoid, please listen to that voice inside you, that feeling in your gut. Your instincts are very rarely wrong, and if you feel like this it is for good reason. He's done a number on you that's for sure. You are entitled to be fucking RAGING, and I'm Angry on your behalf that he is trying to turn this one back on you, how dare he!

He's capable of lying to your face and of betraying you when you needed him the most. Why wouldn't he do it again? He got away with it, you're still there and he has lied to you again and again.

I don't know about you, but the lying even once after such a betrayal would be a dealbreaker for me. Instead, he isn't even sorry and I think even if you had irrefutable evidence he would still try to lie his way out of it. You simply cannot trust him and would be more than reasonable to kick his sorry lying arse to the far end of fuck for that alone.

You may get some truths out of Jane but if they have been involved, you may equally get a load of bullshit from her too. My advice is listen to your instincts. Find evidence if you feel you need to but essentially you would be more than entitled to end it based on what has already happened and what he has already done.

Un-Mumsnetty hugs to you, I'm sorry to be so frank, but the complete and utter lack of respect this man has for you has made me quite cross. You deserve better, love.

ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:48

Right - really am going to bed now. Baby will be up in a minute! All theories, tips or thoughts gratefully considered. Strangely, mulling it all over in this safe space is actually helping - who'd have thought!

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ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:50

Sorry - totally missed your post Inatrance - please don't apologise for your honesty. I'm going to read through your post again properly before going to bed. I have this weird feeling that I know you but I'm sure that's just the MN camraderie!

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ParanoidPrue · 15/02/2012 00:58

Sorry I know I should be going to bed but I just had to tell you Inatrance that I had a little childish giggle at this "would be more than reasonable to kick his sorry lying arse to the far end of fuck for that alone". sounds like a comment that should be trademarked! I do feel stronger when I read your post - I've spent many months (years even) wondering whether I was going mad or not. H has done what he feels is his best to placate me - we've talked a lot. He acknowledged he hurt me but still is evasive about detail. From what I've read on MN it's not uncommon for partners to stray during pregnancy - sad but true fact I've learnt. I thought I was over it and then every couple of years, it feels like someone's punched me in the stomach.

This time is different though - I feel almost totally divorced (in my head) from him. We're not sleeping together, I plan to put the house on the market this year and then rent a suitable home in a different area once I'm back at work. It's not that jane's the problem exactly - more that she's a catalyst for me understanding that he's never going to understand that fidelity/loyalty is a bookmark for me. Without it there simply is no relationship.

Part of me pines for him though. I really thought I'd found the one. I'd had a colourful life before I met him so I wasn't exactly the virgin mary but he touches my soul. I've sacrificed myself over and over again for him simply because I would die for him. I wouldn't even do that for my own flesh and blood family. If this is true (and it seems likely) I will never recover. I won't trust another man again, not in this lifetime.

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