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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MN Jury - need perspective on potential paranoia

202 replies

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 22:57

Right here goes - longtime MNer (although recently more lurking than posting) namechanging for some no holds barred, arse-kicking, truly impartial MN advice.

H and I married 14 years, 3 kids, fairly up and down marriage - typical rollercoaster - when it's good it's great, when it's not good it's really really shit. Dynamic shifted some six years ago whilst pregnant with DC1 when I discovered H had embarked on a fairly nasty text-messaging EA with a woman he met through work. Started when I was 7 mths pregnant, discovered when DC1 was four months old. Carried on for another six or seven months until I found a hidden phone by which time it had stopped. H at the time swore blind it was text messages only, I later discovered sometime after the birth of DC2 that he also telephoned her numerous times a day. He said he only met her once. We moved on ..sort of..had an unplanned DC3. During that time, there have been a couple of occasions when I've found questionnable texts. Rightly or wrongly, I've been checking up on him and both times caught it in the early stages. H is somewhat of a ladies man - I want to say was a ladies man but of course evidence shows that he still considers himself to be so.

There's the background - may be irrelevant but wanted to show H's history. Current situation is this - H and I fostered a friendship with a girl from the local nursery whilst I was pregnant with DC3 - let's call her Jane. She was DC2's keyworker and loved him to bits. H bought her flowers on her birthday (without discussing with me beforehand) and I thought nothing of it because he's fairly generous especially where he thinks kids may benefit. We decided to ask her to babysit DCs whilst I was in hospital. Rang her on the night i went into labour - she cancelled her plans and H picked her up and brought her round. She stayed with kids whilst H took me to hospital. He stayed with me a couple of hours and then went home - to be fair, they told him to. I thought nothing of it at the time. He was going to come first thing in the morning. We had discussed many times that I'd prefer he be with the kids and I would be fine on my own. In the event, he did come the next morning albeit five minutes after I gave birth.

Jane continued to come round ostensibly to see me and the kids. H would collect her and drop her home. He would literally be minutes in the car and often took one of the kids with him when doing this. We discussed that she was a bit of a pain in that she would often invite herself over and then stay far beyond her welcome (along the lines of until 1am in the morning when DC3 was a few weeks old). However we thought she was maybe lonely having not long broken up with her long-term bf.

DC and I went on hols with my parents when DC3 was about 8 months old. H couldn't come as he'd just started new job. We were only away a week but on my return I had texts from Jane asking to come over the following weekend which she did. H was totally different - he didn't offer to collect her or indeed drop her home. He went upstairs and had a bath and then went out. He has never done this with either Jane or indeed any of my friends. No matter how much of a twat he's being to me, he's always been super polite and welcoming to our guests and bent over backwards to see to their needs to the extent that I sometimes feel a bit redundant. Not the case on this occasion - he basically gave Jane the cold shoulder. After I took her home, I did tackle him on it and asked if something was up. He was so weird and dismissive that I really couldn't fathom why he behaved that why.

I shouldn't have but of course I did check his phone and lo and behold there were a number of text message exchanges between them, including one call from her to his phone at midnight. I went absolutely batshit crazy. Not least because he had deleted some of the texts - the ones left were fairly innocuous but still, the fact that he hadn't shared this with me even when I tackled him on his odd behaviour and had deleted some of the exchange left a very very bad taste in my mouth.

His attitude was to treat me as some mad crazy bitch who was making up stuff in her head. We tried to talk about it a number of times - our relationship went to hell. I did say to him on numerous occasions that I didn't think anything had happened not least because he had given her the cold shoulder the last time she visited. I asked specifically why she would call at midnight knowing he was alone. He said that he had no idea - he'd been half asleep so had just made excuses and hung up. Sounds plausible but his insistence that Jane was just a innocent young girl who'd simply made an error in judgement ringing him so late infuriated me for some reason. We stopped talking about it ..well, basically because we stopped talking. Only recently have we been slowly getting back on track after a particularly nasty argument a few weeks back.

Okay this is very long but to get to the crux of what advice I need...in a nutshell! Jane has only texted me once in the last four months (since our holiday) to ask to come over. She has texted H and telephoned him about three times, the last time saying that she couldn't get hold of me. H rang her back and left her a voicemail on one occasion when he got short shrift from me for making apologies for me as if I was being unreasonable. So far as I know, he's ignoring her (I'm no longer checking his phone). Last week, I deleted Jane from FB - firstly because the whole thing is doing my fucking head in and secondly because she had some godawful link to a photoalbum named "Cockalicious" or something equally tasteless. DC1 (7) often reads over my shoulder and I don't fancy answering that question. She's obviously twigged and has, in the space of two hours tonight, texted me twice, rang me and sent me a private fb message.

So what the fucking fuck do I do? Am I totally mad? Should I be apologising to Jane and to H for being some mad old paranoid bint? I'd come to terms with the fact that I was never going to know exactly what happened whilst I was away but I was pretty sure H wouldn't be such a fucking plonker to shit on his own doorstep and be willing to throw our relationship away which is what would happen if I caught him doing anything (and I mean anything) untoward again. My gut says ignore her messages and delete delete delete. But part of me wonders whether I should meet her and just let her know why I'm not interested in pursuing a friendship with her. She's old enough (21 yrs) to know what's appropriate and even though she certainly may have a crush on H going on her past behaviour, she should know that I'm not exactly going to just brush that under the carpet.

Anyway - if you've managed to read this far, congratulations - give yourself a shiney!

OP posts:
flyingspaghettimonster · 15/02/2012 23:34

I think if it were me I would just have to ask for her side. Then I would start preparing for divorce. I don't think we are often ring when we have a feeling like that... I know when I was jealous of KY husband making a female friend years ago I was right to be... there was a reason I had the jealous feelings. If your man cannot stop flirting and being inappropriate and is as sneaky as to have had a secret phone then he is not worth clinging to. You are wasting your life and could find someone who really appreciates you and doesn't tell you you are crazy and lie all the time.

Good luck.

AlbertoFrog · 15/02/2012 23:40

Hi ParanoidPru

None of us know if your husband has cheated with this woman but none the less he isn't exactly treating you with the respect you deserve.

You have children. May I suggest you imagine that one of your children come to you in the future and tell you this story, about their partner, and how they are being treated and what should they do?

What advice would you give them?

Good luck.

kelly2525 · 15/02/2012 23:55

Agree with everyone else, its hard to judge, but I would go with your instincts Prue, whatever they are, do whats best for you and the kids, and for what its worth, you seem to be a much stronger person than you or the Husband give you credit for.

I hope it all works out for you, I know what its like once the trust has gone, it makes life so fucking hard, when it never needed to be.

Good luck

CervixWithASmile · 16/02/2012 00:06

The thing is, not only did she call at midnight, but he answered.

You should trust your gut instinct here, plus this isn't an isolated incident correct?

HippoPottyMouth · 16/02/2012 07:49

Well my instincts from reading that are that she was being honest with you. I'm crap at lying though, so maybe I judge all by my own skills :)
Sounds like you did well though, and kept calm and dignified, well done!

He still sounds shifty though. Although actually my DH has a history of not telling me stuff because he doesn't want the stress of me having a go at him (not OW related) and as you can imagine, that makes me go ballistic :o

Proudnscary · 16/02/2012 08:34

My instinct is the opposite of Hippo's I'm afraid.

I feel that if I was confronted like this and I was innocent and truly shocked, I would have not gone into all the detail she did, I would not protest so much, I would not remember all the instances in such detail - I would just either get angry or go into utter shock.

I just can't bear the thought of Prue going through this or similar every couple of years.

In my experience (well not mine but close friends who have been cheated on), OW and husband will never, ever, EVER admit to anything that is not already out there and that cannot be proved. And every single time, a 'flirtation' or friendship turned out to be an affair.

I'm sorry but I actually do think it's worth saying.

porcamiseria · 16/02/2012 09:00

well done prue

loook I am almost thinking 21-skank-bitch is a red herring, I can see that the jury is very much out on whether they did/did not- poor you-head fuck

But I think what you posted earlier kind of says it all. you dont trust him any more, and sounds like you want to move on and be friends

so in some ways this is almost irrelevant, as whatever happens you are not happy due to bad shit in the past

what I am trying to say is EVEN IF nothing did happen, YANBU to feel hurt, upset and want to re-evaluate

as DH may well say "nothing hapended with skank-21, so why do you want to end it" IYSWIM?

GOOD LUCK, what goes around comes around and you are majorly due some happiness, have faith XXXXX

SmethwickBelle · 16/02/2012 09:16

I think you handled it brilliantly - you were assertive and bullish and will have scared the crap out of the pair of them actually. He is manipulating you left right and centre even if he's not shagging anyone and that's a disorienting way to live.

In answer to your original post - YANB remotely U, when someone has form for lying (even if not cheating) then it can be hard to believe a bloody word they say sometimes. I know this from bitter experience, you have to call them on it when you spot it, in a calm way and refuse to get into a debate, and not let it be magically turned into something YOU are doing wrong. Trust your instincts and stick to your guns. Good luck x

SmethwickBelle · 16/02/2012 09:17

If you google "gaslighting" this explains a lot of the tricks lying bastards emotional abusers use to make you doubt your own judgement. Sorry if already mentioned.

iCANdothisiCAN · 16/02/2012 09:52

OP reading this has made me bawl my eyes out. Not only for you but for both of us.

My situation is almost word for word the same.

The thing is, with MN's help, this time I actually did "leave the bastard".

It's scary as shit but amazingly made me feel the strongest I have in years.

Somehow though I still couldn't bring myself to make it permanent, just kept telling him, myself, everyone "I don't know about the future yet but for now we are officially seperated".

The last week or so I have been really softening and seeing him with ds has made me want our family back together.

Reading this has just.slapped me in the face with the.ridiculousness of it all.

No disrespect to you at all op, but I promise you if you read my story you would feel exactly the same.

Both you and I know exactly what's going on and we know it will never change.

What o still don't know or understand is why an otherwise intelligent woman allows it to happen.

We both know what we need to do but why is it so fucking hard?

I will be thinking of you and wishing you all the strength I don't seem to have.

You are more than welcome to PM me if you want an ear.

xxx

tallwivglasses · 16/02/2012 10:34

A brave and honest post iCAN. Prue, I hope things turn out okay for you. In the meantime detatch. I'd be struggling to find it in my heart to feed this horrible, entitled man, do his washing or even pass the time of day with him Sad

fedupofnamechanging · 16/02/2012 10:47

Just read your whole thread and wanted to say how sorry I am that you are going through this. It's a horrible thing, to be looking over your shoulder the whole time and to not know for sure whether your husband and friend are lying to you.

I think that my dh had an EA once - he denies it, says it was just a friendship. I never saw the texts, only that they were constant for a while and sometimes late at night. To this day, I still don't know for sure. It seems quite common behaviour though (judging by the relationships board), for the 'd'h to make the wife feel paranoid, as if it's all in her head. I think you are right to trust your instincts - they may not be always right, but they exist for a reason.

I think it's maybe possible to get over something like this, once, if there is genuine regret on the part of the cheater. But if you are someone for whom fidelity and truth are important and he keeps on lying and ignoring how you feel, then I truly don't see how you can reconcile the two things. He either loves you enough to put your happiness first, or he doesn't.

If you decide to stay with him, I think I would make it absolutely conditional on him going to Relate (or the equivalent) with you. If he then cannot see what is so wrong, then I don't see how you can stay together, because you cannot spend your whole life wondering, every time you or he come into contact with a woman, whether this is the next one in the line.

So sorry x

rhondajean · 16/02/2012 10:55

Oh prue. It sounds like she's protesting a bit too much, but it's hard to tell on here.

I wish you peace and clarity of mind x

CervixWithASmile · 16/02/2012 11:41

The thing is, you know they talked before you met yesterday, and you know that she knew you wanted to talk. It's hardly a coincidence she rang him in-between and then had answers for everything.

Heyyyho · 16/02/2012 14:01

So sorry you are going through this. Honestly I think she sounded sincere from what you wrote on here.

Would a young girl really be interested in a middle aged father? Does he look like brad Pitt? What on earth would she gain from this affair? Confused

On the other hand I think he may have made a play and been knocked back from what you say about how huffy he was with her.

In a nutshell HE is your problem.

porcamiseria · 16/02/2012 14:05

"What o still don't know or understand is why an otherwise intelligent woman allows it to happen.

It breaks me heart to see people beating themself up like this, look if you marry someone and they are the father of your kids you are almost hardwired to love them, to want to beleive them, to want to keep your family together. Its not WEAK to feel like this, and its incredibly hard to break away as you are going against years of conditooning

good luck ICAn and PRUE

Cherriesarelovely · 16/02/2012 15:43

Hope you are ok today Prue have been thinking of you and sending strong willed vibes to you.

ParanoidPrue · 17/02/2012 22:37

Hello - I'm back with a somewhat clearer mind. Thanks for all the opinions but mostly thanks for all the good wishes - it really helps to know that I'm not bonkers about this whole thing and that what it boils down to is that I'm not feeling respected by H and his actions in general. We did have a quick chat (time pressures with work, kids etc.) and I did tell him just that. He knows I spoke to Jane but not that I met with her. He's still protesting that he didn't do anything so I'm still convinced he just doesn't "get it" but at least he acknowledged that he lied because he's just used to lying and it's a bad habit.

Jane's become a bit of a stalker actually!! She's sending lots of apologetic texts and begging for us to be friends. I'm a bit meh tbh. She's not much of a friend - I'm adopting the Porca label of Skank21 in my head!! I never really had much in common with her and definitely don't feel like going out of my way to spend time alone with her. She's meeting me tomorrow when I intend to tell her to back off permanently - will try not to use "fuck off to the far end of fuck" (thank you Inatrance for putting that comment firmly in my vocabulary!) but it may come to that if she doesn't get the message.

I think the only way forward for me is some sort of joint counselling as most people have said. It's the only way I can get some outside perspective to get through to H that what he's doing is just plain wrong and disrespectful to me. I confided in someone who knows us both well about the problem and she said that it may be down to his history going back to childhood in terms of pleasing needy women and needing to be needed if that makes sense. I don't really want to give him any excuses so haven't/won't mention that to him but I do think he needs to examine himself pretty deeply if he's going to get to the bottom of why he keeps on doing it.

Then again - it maybe that he doesn't give a shit why he keeps doing it and will do it as it feels good. It which case, Plan A will take effect and I'll just slowly but surely find my own way in life. Not a bad thing, rather than another 14 year headfuck I feel!

OP posts:
fedupofnamechanging · 17/02/2012 22:52

You sound really strong and positive. Wishing you all the best.

I think you are right to bin Jane - she is not adding anything positive to your life.

ParanoidPrue · 17/02/2012 23:08

Thank you Karma - I appreciated your honesty with regard to your own uncertainty as to your H's EA. H was quick to point out today that he did make a terrible mistake 7 years ago and he feels like he's still being punished for it now. My response was that my distrustful attitude was borne out of his continual lies rather than that one mistake. This thread gave me the strength to say that to him actually. I'd actually minimised my own worry to the point of calling it paranoia when he readily admits that he continues to lie about seemingly trivial things.

Again, no idea if it actually seeped into his consciousness - he's a very charming person (although no Brad Pitt!) and it's only very recently that I've realised he charms me as much as he charms any other woman - except that he does it to me just to shut me up rather than make me feel good about myself!

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 18/02/2012 20:20

good luck, you sound alot clearer about things, and yes def bin jane!!!!!. good luck XXXXXXX

Proudnscary · 18/02/2012 20:29

I know I have been (and am) sceptical about your dh saying nothing happened BUT I wish you all the luck in the world and hope it works out for you xx

ParanoidPrue · 09/09/2012 23:39

OP Bumping Old Thread

Right, am bumping this thread for myself for purely selfish reasons. Just by way of a quick update, the original situation in the OP seems to have resolved itself. I have blocked "Jane" and heard nothing further. Some niggles remain as to what really happened but we've managed to move on mostly because I ignore those niggles and our relationship has been more bearable on the whole lying cheating bastard front.

Until today, when I was looking for something in his car (totally innocently) and found two unopened condoms. My world has just come crashing down. H knows I found them and concocted some cock n bull story explained that he had carried them in the car for us on a recent holiday. Except that on that holiday, he showed no interest in sex and on one occasion when things got heated he did not produce a condom. Besides the fact that we haven't used condoms for four years.

I digress. I haven't discussed this further with him. I don't intend to. I simply have no idea if he's telling the truth. I could snoop further but really don't want to. I just want it over now. I told him after the whole Jane thing that if one more dodgy thing happened, it would be over. And now it has. It's irrelevant to me if he cheated on me/is cheating on me. As I said to him, there can only be one explanation for a married man carrying condoms in his car and it's not because he intends to have sex with his wife. H has run the full gamut of predictable responses to my find - oh, isn't it hilarious poor little wifey has the wrong end of the stick? oh, but I love you come here let me smooch you and the crowning glory tonight - you stupid bitch you're ruining our lives with your shit, you're mentally unstable (nice).

I have remained cool and alarmingly detached. I don't want to talk about it. I just want to leave. I know I will waver in the next couple of days because like an idiot, I have no job and nowhere to run to - therefore leaving is not as simple as packing a bag and going particularly with three children, schools etc. to consider. He won't leave and I won't ask him. He's not violent (although he can be verbally abusive) and I'm not scared. I just want the marriage to be over. I don't want to stay in this house - it's in negative equity and I hate it here. We don't have any money so nothing to fight over there. I just want to move elsewhere with the kids, give him plenty of access and never ever ever let this man anywhere near my heart again.

So my question once again deliberately placed in the infamous AIBU forum is this - am I unreasonable to end my 14 year marriage with three kids over the presence of two unopened condoms in the car of my H when I have no further evidence of his straying either physically or emotionally?

OP posts:
IvanaNap · 10/09/2012 00:08

Prue, just read your thread and your update. Your new aibu isn't entirely correct though, is it? It is not just the condoms, its the history behind them. You have no trust left in your relationship and a husband who does not seem willing to rebuild it. The respect has gone and the past has never truly been put to rest, you deserve a happy life free from second guessing yourself, questioning your sanity, checking up on your husband like the child he is and -ultimately- feeling insecure in the truest sense of the word.

Consider asking him to leave, even just in the short term, to gather your thoughts. Do you have RL support?

IvanaNap · 10/09/2012 00:11

I forgot, two things-

  1. It is relevant, though you may never know for sure, if he has cheated- both for divorce proceedings and an sti check :(

  2. so sorry you're going through this shit.

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