Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

MN Jury - need perspective on potential paranoia

202 replies

ParanoidPrue · 14/02/2012 22:57

Right here goes - longtime MNer (although recently more lurking than posting) namechanging for some no holds barred, arse-kicking, truly impartial MN advice.

H and I married 14 years, 3 kids, fairly up and down marriage - typical rollercoaster - when it's good it's great, when it's not good it's really really shit. Dynamic shifted some six years ago whilst pregnant with DC1 when I discovered H had embarked on a fairly nasty text-messaging EA with a woman he met through work. Started when I was 7 mths pregnant, discovered when DC1 was four months old. Carried on for another six or seven months until I found a hidden phone by which time it had stopped. H at the time swore blind it was text messages only, I later discovered sometime after the birth of DC2 that he also telephoned her numerous times a day. He said he only met her once. We moved on ..sort of..had an unplanned DC3. During that time, there have been a couple of occasions when I've found questionnable texts. Rightly or wrongly, I've been checking up on him and both times caught it in the early stages. H is somewhat of a ladies man - I want to say was a ladies man but of course evidence shows that he still considers himself to be so.

There's the background - may be irrelevant but wanted to show H's history. Current situation is this - H and I fostered a friendship with a girl from the local nursery whilst I was pregnant with DC3 - let's call her Jane. She was DC2's keyworker and loved him to bits. H bought her flowers on her birthday (without discussing with me beforehand) and I thought nothing of it because he's fairly generous especially where he thinks kids may benefit. We decided to ask her to babysit DCs whilst I was in hospital. Rang her on the night i went into labour - she cancelled her plans and H picked her up and brought her round. She stayed with kids whilst H took me to hospital. He stayed with me a couple of hours and then went home - to be fair, they told him to. I thought nothing of it at the time. He was going to come first thing in the morning. We had discussed many times that I'd prefer he be with the kids and I would be fine on my own. In the event, he did come the next morning albeit five minutes after I gave birth.

Jane continued to come round ostensibly to see me and the kids. H would collect her and drop her home. He would literally be minutes in the car and often took one of the kids with him when doing this. We discussed that she was a bit of a pain in that she would often invite herself over and then stay far beyond her welcome (along the lines of until 1am in the morning when DC3 was a few weeks old). However we thought she was maybe lonely having not long broken up with her long-term bf.

DC and I went on hols with my parents when DC3 was about 8 months old. H couldn't come as he'd just started new job. We were only away a week but on my return I had texts from Jane asking to come over the following weekend which she did. H was totally different - he didn't offer to collect her or indeed drop her home. He went upstairs and had a bath and then went out. He has never done this with either Jane or indeed any of my friends. No matter how much of a twat he's being to me, he's always been super polite and welcoming to our guests and bent over backwards to see to their needs to the extent that I sometimes feel a bit redundant. Not the case on this occasion - he basically gave Jane the cold shoulder. After I took her home, I did tackle him on it and asked if something was up. He was so weird and dismissive that I really couldn't fathom why he behaved that why.

I shouldn't have but of course I did check his phone and lo and behold there were a number of text message exchanges between them, including one call from her to his phone at midnight. I went absolutely batshit crazy. Not least because he had deleted some of the texts - the ones left were fairly innocuous but still, the fact that he hadn't shared this with me even when I tackled him on his odd behaviour and had deleted some of the exchange left a very very bad taste in my mouth.

His attitude was to treat me as some mad crazy bitch who was making up stuff in her head. We tried to talk about it a number of times - our relationship went to hell. I did say to him on numerous occasions that I didn't think anything had happened not least because he had given her the cold shoulder the last time she visited. I asked specifically why she would call at midnight knowing he was alone. He said that he had no idea - he'd been half asleep so had just made excuses and hung up. Sounds plausible but his insistence that Jane was just a innocent young girl who'd simply made an error in judgement ringing him so late infuriated me for some reason. We stopped talking about it ..well, basically because we stopped talking. Only recently have we been slowly getting back on track after a particularly nasty argument a few weeks back.

Okay this is very long but to get to the crux of what advice I need...in a nutshell! Jane has only texted me once in the last four months (since our holiday) to ask to come over. She has texted H and telephoned him about three times, the last time saying that she couldn't get hold of me. H rang her back and left her a voicemail on one occasion when he got short shrift from me for making apologies for me as if I was being unreasonable. So far as I know, he's ignoring her (I'm no longer checking his phone). Last week, I deleted Jane from FB - firstly because the whole thing is doing my fucking head in and secondly because she had some godawful link to a photoalbum named "Cockalicious" or something equally tasteless. DC1 (7) often reads over my shoulder and I don't fancy answering that question. She's obviously twigged and has, in the space of two hours tonight, texted me twice, rang me and sent me a private fb message.

So what the fucking fuck do I do? Am I totally mad? Should I be apologising to Jane and to H for being some mad old paranoid bint? I'd come to terms with the fact that I was never going to know exactly what happened whilst I was away but I was pretty sure H wouldn't be such a fucking plonker to shit on his own doorstep and be willing to throw our relationship away which is what would happen if I caught him doing anything (and I mean anything) untoward again. My gut says ignore her messages and delete delete delete. But part of me wonders whether I should meet her and just let her know why I'm not interested in pursuing a friendship with her. She's old enough (21 yrs) to know what's appropriate and even though she certainly may have a crush on H going on her past behaviour, she should know that I'm not exactly going to just brush that under the carpet.

Anyway - if you've managed to read this far, congratulations - give yourself a shiney!

OP posts:
CoolaSchmoola · 10/09/2012 00:24

Having been in a similar situation (except I was confronted by the latest OW at work, in front of my staff - niiiiice!) no YANBU!

Mine had numerous online EA's - and every time told me I was paranoid etc etc. Then came the real affair, followed by one of the most painful experiences of my life.

Leaving was the best thing I ever did - the utter relief of not spending so much time and energy trying to sort the lies from the truth, second guessing EVERYTHING was amazing, I felt light in my soul. I didn't realise until afterwards just how draining and stressful all the wondering and watching was.

I did have wobbles, but it honestly felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. Without trust there is nothing. Good luck x.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 00:45

Thanks Ivana and Coola - you're saying everything I need to hear (and it's good to hear that you can come out of the other side of that horrible "paranoia" Coola). I'm going to phone the GP about an STI check tomorrow - I'm deliberately phoning our family surgery as I refuse to skulk about trying to find somewhere I can do it anonymously. Fuck anonymity frankly - I've spent too long trying to hide all this shit and pretend everything's hunky dory when it's not. I'm girding my loins for H's renewed attack on me tomorrow - I'm pretty sure he's going to be hammering for me especially with regard to the kids who adore him even if he is a lazy useless cheating tosser

I don't think I can ask him to move out Ivana - he's done nothing to warrant it, it's me who wants out and it's me who needs space. If he realises that I'm not joking and offers then I won't say no but I think it's unlikely. Part of his modus operandi is to make sure he's in my face all the fucking time haranguing me to stop being a moody miserable bitch and "just be normal". Yes, because it's totally normal to find condoms in your husband's car, how stupid of me...

OP posts:
tallwivglasses · 10/09/2012 01:17

That's the spirit. Hold your head high Smile

rogersmellyonthetelly · 10/09/2012 07:00

Yanbu again. Trust me on this one, I have a similar experience with my dh, and my gut instinct is always right re him, and I suspect your gut instinct is also right. Men don't carry condoms unless they are thinking of using them, and since you haven't used them for a long time and these are in date I assume, it's because he is planning or has used them with someone else.
Your partner has lied to you many times over the years, had affairs that you are aware of, he is still lying now and is using the old "your crazy" line to make you doubt yourself.

WandaDoff · 10/09/2012 10:14

Trust your gut on this one, my love.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 10:16

Thanks Tall and Roger - I needed that. I've made some calls so far today (STI check etc) so am feeling a little more positive. H is still adamantly denying any wrongdoing - apparently he told me he put the condoms in the car - there was a box of 12 and the rest are in the first aid kit. I did point out that at no point did he produce any condoms and in any event, why did they need to be hidden in the first aid kit if they were for us. I'm told I have a selective memory because I enjoy the drama ... so make of that what you will.

I'm still wavering on the "do I actually have any evidence?" front. Can I ask Roger - what did you find out and what did you do when you did find out? If you don't want to talk about it, that's fine just tell me to piss off!

OP posts:
ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 10:18

x post with Wanda - thank you Smile All this is really helping - H has a great way of making me feel like I'm crazy, it's his special skill I guess and he's very good at it Sad

OP posts:
thebeesnees79 · 10/09/2012 10:25

I know I am late in the day for opinion but it sounds to me like they are fishing to see what information you do have?? if that makes sense. Maybe that's why she sent you a pm, text and called you.
if someone deleted me of Facebook the last thing I would do is to contact and ask why, I would feel really embarrassed.
I hope you manage to sort things out and sorry your having to put up with all of it on top of having children to look after x

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 10/09/2012 10:46

PP, he's done MORE than enough to warrant you asking him to move out. He's lied god knows how many times, started EA, and now you've found hidden condoms. If they were for you and him, why were they in the car? Exactly how often does a married couple with 3 children have sex in a car??

Even if it turns out he hasn't done anything (which is very unlikely!) you don't need a reason not to be in a relationship with someone who makes you feel paranoid and uncomfortable. Who you daren't leave alone with your friends in case he 'accidentally' flirts with them. You deserve so much better!

I have a 'charming' ex, DDs dad, and it's only now I can see that 'charming' basically means tell every lie he can to get out of trouble, who cares who gets caught in the way? It's so much easier now he's not part of my life, that I don't have to worry when a friend acts a bit odd that it's because my partner started hitting on her. That my mind doesn't start racing every time a message beeps on a phone, wondering how I can sneak it off to read who it was. Yes, it's hard, but life is SO MUCH better.

KenLeeeeeee · 10/09/2012 10:55

You're not BU at all. I've just read the whole thread and tbph I hoped that your update was going to say "I left the bastard and feel a million times stronger and better for it now".

It's not just about the condoms or the texts; you don't and can't trust him and he doesn't seem to understand the value of that trust or feel even remotely inclined to demonstrate his trustworthiness. You can't live your life monitoring his every action just to make sure he's not up to his old tricks again. I've been there, done that, left the bastard and life was SO much better once I got my head straight.

kjmama · 10/09/2012 11:09

how do you know she just didnt have a crush on him came on to him and he declined her advances he might not want to make a fuss of it , to risk arguing with you , you never know !

IvanaNap · 10/09/2012 11:36

Kjmama read the thread/update. Unexplained condoms in a car: A secure marriage do not make.

kjmama · 10/09/2012 11:38

as for the condoms hun youll never know if hes being honest or not ,do what is right for you , there are unanswered questions but with no proof ,I would be very concerned about ending a marriage , he should be proving to you hes there for you not making you suspect otherwise , hope you are ok

IvanaNap · 10/09/2012 11:42

Prue, you don't need "evidence" to show that you have 0 trust left. You will always be watching him and that is no way to live. He has already shown that he is not following your wishes ("tell me if she contacts you") the dumb ass.

coppertop · 10/09/2012 12:01

The fact that he's turning this around and making out that you are mentally unstable has the alarm bells ringing for me.

The comment about you liking the drama sounds downright odd. Obviously I don't know you IRL, and have no idea what your usual MN name is, but from reading this thread you sound more like someone who would actively avoid drama.

Sorry but I wouldn't trust him as far as I could kick him.

DaveMccave · 10/09/2012 12:11

I'm sorry but it seems blindingly obvious to me that something has happened between them. My guess is they had an affair, or they just slept together when you were on holiday, or that he tried it on with her and SHE knocked him back. I'm not sure why you are assuming it would be the other way around, when she is the one that asked to come round after the event, has queried why you have deleted her instead of backing off, and he was the one doing the hiding.

He has treated you terribly in the past with the texting, and rather than striving to reassure you, he tells you you are acting crazy. A classic passing the blame method of a selfish cheater.

The only way you are going to get some answers, is to meet with 'Jane' and not give her enough time to warn him. So not a weeks warning. Ring her and ask if you can meet right away or something. Tell her that you know, and wait to hear what she says. Something happened so she won't think you're crazy.

rogersmellyonthetelly · 10/09/2012 12:24

Paranoid- dh's problems have been ongoing since before I even met him, as a teen he displayed addictive behaviour on chat lines, running up huge bills with no means to pay. since we met 14 years ago I have found out about his "infidelity" many times, he doesn't ever meet up with anyone from what I have found (and ive done a whole lot of snooping over the years) what I do notice is stuff like him not leaving his mobile around, spending evenings on the pc and coming to bed late, hours after me, agitation and short temper, when he leaves his email logged on, I notice his inbox is completely empty, even the trash and sent items.
Recently I heard his phone buzz at 2am and looked at his texts whilst he was sleeping, turns out the buzz was an email, but I found evidence of late night calls to someone, finally last week I discovered his alternative email logged on and was confronted with very explicit emails and photos from him to women and vice versa. I have kicked him out temporarily and insisted he has some counselling for it or our marriage is over. The major difference here is that dh admits the emails when confronted, accepts responsibility for it, doesn't try to blame me for his failings and has agreed to get help. If he hadn't done all those things I would have kicked him out years ago.

Thirstysomething · 10/09/2012 12:27

I think if you meet her behind his back and there IS nothing going on (big if), then you will really damage any relationship you have left.
Personally, although I can see it is really hard with someone who is defensive (I went out with serial unfaithful git for years), I think I would confront him again.
As Rhonda says, it could be relatively innocent - e.g. she got infatuated, he slightly led her on, she is now upset enough to phone/text inappropriately. He didn't feel able to tell you because he is partly responsible and knows how pissed off you were about his earlier shenanigans...
I would talk to him and say something like "you have got to see that it looks a bit weird, can you just tell me what happened. It doesn't mean the end of our relationship, just that we need to work on it if you are feeling tempted by other women" blah blah blah psychobabble.
Then go TOTALLY batshit on his arse if he confesses to infidelity.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 12:29

Wow - so many kind and thoughtful responses, thank you Flowers

Coppertop - are you sure you don't know me?! The comment about the drama is spot on - I do actively avoid drama and believe me, with H's personality, drama often figures in our lives. My stock response is to put my head down and carry on regardless rather to my detriment it seems from recent events.

Thank you Ivana - I know in my head you're right, it's a trust issue but my heart is weak and I can't help but doubt my judgement because of the condoms thing not being "serious" enough to merit the decision now rather than in the past.

Posts about experiences of Coola, Rogers, Breakout and KenLee really hit home for me. That gut wrenching feeling when you see an unfamiliar name on a text or you call and there's no answer or he's late home and is fudgy about the reason. These are feelings I've been attempting to repress to no effect in the past few years, thinking that it's my paranoid response to his behaviour which is the issue. I can't quite give myself permission yet to say out loud that actually it's his behaviour which is the problem rather than my response. I feel weak for needing the reassurance but all of your stories are helping me no end.

and a weak LOL to the posters who are confused because I've stupidly bumped an old thread. I thought it might help to see the background via the backstory particularly since finding condoms aren't a reason in and of itself to end a relationship. I should have started a new thread with a link but I couldn't be arsed Blush. Thank you beesknees, kjmama and Dave for your lovely posts anyway

I'm okay but keep bursting into tears for no apparent reason - I think it's the thought of telling my parents/friends I'm thinking of leaving, sorting out changing schools/nurseries etc. I sob for a couple of seconds and then pull myself together. Just now I sobbed into my 18 month olds lovely gorgeous smelling curly hair whilst he was asleep on my shoulder. Thank God for chubby little babies to squeeze when you feel like your life is in the toilet. more Flowers for all

OP posts:
Thirstysomething · 10/09/2012 12:30

sorry, by accident I hadn't read the whole thread. I think the condoms are very suspicious and am changing my mind. go get her.

ParanoidPrue · 10/09/2012 12:34

Jesus wept Rogers (nearly called you Todgers there typing through tears!) - that sounds absolutely horrendous. Good on you for having the guts to kick him out - I just can't see myself doing that tbh. I hate this house and I can't afford the mortgage - I just want to be able to deal with this on my own terms without him breathing down my neck. It would feel more permanent to me if I left - if he left, he'd be here (in spirit if not physically) and I would feel pressure to give in again I think. I really hope it all works out for you - certainly if my H were to approach this in a calmer more contrite way, my response to him would be very very different.

Thirtysomething - great minds think alike, that's exactly how I approached it. Unfortunately H didn't confess to anything and insisted it all came from her side. Either he's telling the truth or he's an excellent liar. By bumping this thread I realised that I never really dealt with that issue and although it's too late to deal with it now, it does illustrate in a crystal clear way to me that H is the master of confusion and deception and "the truth" as a concept is totally dependent on his needs and desires rather than being something based on fact and actual events.

OP posts:
brighteyedbusytailed · 10/09/2012 13:16

God you are so patient to still be there he sounds like a right untrustworthy arse.

The glaring bit to me is how shes panicking now you have blocked her.

mum4041 · 10/09/2012 13:21

Just in case you can't see through the fog of his deception:

His behaviour is not normal and you've put up with it long enough.

I have been called old fashioned before, but none of this is normal behaviour for a married man imv:

Texting other women repeatedly or late at night.
Deleting email/text history.
Buying gifts for other women.
Inviting young girls round when you're away.
Strange behaviour having invited young girl round indicating in my view, something definitely went on.
Keeping condoms in the car.

YANBU and you are not crazy.

Hope you're ok.

cheekybarsteward · 10/09/2012 14:01

I think that regardless of all the evidence you now know that it is time to close the door on this relationship.
I feel that there comes a time when you just know that enough is enough and you need to start the next chapter of your life and be happy.
I wish you all the strength you need. Flowers

Thirstysomething · 10/09/2012 14:36

oh but, god how hard it is to 'close the door' on a relationship!?! Especially when you have children with the b"stard.
sorry, this is a ridiculous question, but do you really really love him, despite his terrible behaviour?? Is it worth offering him the ultimatum of counselling (and find a really GOOD counsellor, not just anyone) or you will leave? Leopards don't change their spots easily, but for the sake of the children (and you, if you love him), do you think you should try?
So sorry, I am sure I am coming across as hideously old fashioned. I had a relationship just like this for five years and ultimately I am glad I left him, but if I had had kids with him, I think I would have been tempted to try everything, e.g. counselling, moving house, starting new life together, etc before giving up on it.